Talking Cinema

[raj]: all right the cabinet of dr collicaligary
did i pronounce that right

[Ben]: as far as you know

[raj]: awesome

[Ben]: you never

[raj]: released

[Ben]: hear him say

[raj]: in

[Ben]: his

[raj]: nineteen

[Ben]: name you

[raj]: twenty

[Ben]: never hear him say his name in
the entire movie

[raj]: well that's that's what that's that's a
sign of movie for you so

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: all right let me tell you why
i love this movie and i did love

[raj]: this movie the production and set design

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: it is off the charts now i
know i use that word often when describing

[raj]: movies but i really do mean at
this time every scene looks like a painting

[raj]: done by some avon guard artists the
rooms have walls that are slanted or curved

[raj]: the buildings have sharp edges and windows
are shaped like ramp uh the set

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: yeah the whole production designed lets the
viewers know that this film

[Ben]: yes

[raj]: is bizarre even mad

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: and unpredictable a world where anything goes
and right from the start the movie has

[raj]: a creepy field you see francis sitting
on the park bench with another man a

[raj]: francis fiance jane walks by with almost
with an almost expressionless face

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: she doesn't even look at francis

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: and then francis tells the other guy
i was like oh she's my fiance a

[Ben]: you get the you get the sense
that she is very disturbed something

[raj]: she is very

[Ben]: has happened

[raj]: disturbed and i i'm glad you said
that i love when movies start out with

[raj]: this kind of weirdness or disturb where
you have this like wow this is just

[raj]: irby

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: and then the rest of the movie
is there to explain why yeah

[Ben]: yeah there's

[raj]: so

[Ben]: tremendous foreshadowing and fact

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: everything seems disturbing one of the facts
that the scenery

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: has the odd angles the fact that
nothing seems to have a right angle any

[Ben]: in the movie

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: nothing that's completely vertical nor completely horizontal

[raj]: ah

[Ben]: it's really kind of throwing you into
this is

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: the world where madness reigns supreme where
the

[raj]: m

[Ben]: madman is king and where

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: saying people are the playthings of mad
people and

[raj]: yeh

[Ben]: it is very now some of this
is just brilliant artistic design

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: that you can see there's definitely very

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: strong cubist influence s this is this
movie was made directly after were one the

[Ben]: cubist movement is

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: in full swing this point

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: although it's not peaked and but it's
also

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: a lot of it was simply the
you know the poverty post war

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: germany they couldn't get

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: bigger sets they couldn't build bigger sets
there was the

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: studios were bankrupt the actors were making
good money for germany at the time but

[Ben]: you

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: know tiny tiny tiny salaries compared to
what american or british or italian actors

[raj]: no

[Ben]: would be making um

[raj]: ah

[Ben]: it is and

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: a lot of these bizarre camera angles
it's simply because they couldn't put the camera

[Ben]: anywhere else it's a combination of artistic
genius but also necessity pushing the genius even

[Ben]: further

[raj]: well said well said

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: sometimes like

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: the accidental

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: genius even more genius

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: the plan genius

[Ben]: yeah i mean it is like there

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: were situations where they in order to
illustrate light they couldn't actually have lights

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: so they had to paint lights like
okay we only get the lights we

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: have in the front and we can't

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: actually do anything else

[raj]: a

[Ben]: but it is now

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: i mean go on ahead going and
enough with the sets enough with the sets

[raj]: so yeah let's get into the movie
actually so

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: so this movie is like part flash
back or mostly most of it's a flash

[raj]: back

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and the flash back is

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: we'll just give away the ending

[Ben]: well

[raj]: we find out

[Ben]: yes

[raj]: well go ahead

[Ben]: you're goin t give away the ending

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: well i was going to say like
so the movie is a flash back but

[Ben]: ye

[raj]: flash backs made up it's all the
guy's head

[Ben]: this is kind of

[raj]: so

[Ben]: you know when you think about like
stories like the occurrence at owl creek bridge

[Ben]: where

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: the only part that really is happening
real time was the beginning in the end

[Ben]: and everything is in the guy's head
the

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: same thing is going on here

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: um dr caligari who all though the
movie is portrayed as this crazy man is

[Ben]: not

[raj]: oh and by the way the guy
that plays or word or cross

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: you could disagree with you if you
want but he was fantastic

[Ben]: yes

[raj]: as dr caligari i mean just his
acting was incredible and a lot of it

[raj]: is just his look and his weight
and when he was dressed asked

[Ben]: well the other thing is also

[raj]: but that's part of acting

[Ben]: when you actually do

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: see that in fact calgary this mad

[raj]: ah

[Ben]: scientist is nothing of the kind he's
just the

[raj]: yah

[Ben]: doctor running the same

[raj]: yah

[Ben]: asie

[raj]: the

[Ben]: and

[raj]: director

[Ben]: he starts acting completely or

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: is almost unrecognizable until he puts his
glasses on to read something and they're like

[Ben]: oh it really is

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: calegory

[raj]: we'll get to that final part well
we'll get to that part a little bit

[raj]: a little bit later i wanted i
do want to talk about that because that's

[raj]: like one of my favorite scenes in
the movie but but go on yeah like

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: uh

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: it's like we get this twist ending
where like francis the whole flash back scene

[raj]: in the middle is just part of
his imagination but then it got me thinking

[raj]: like

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: is it could it possibly be that
maybe the whole thing was real and then

[raj]: they put him in the asylum to
cover it up and then when he was

[raj]: in the asylum he was getting memories
of this where it's like wait a minute

[raj]: something i feel like i should be
here something happened

[Ben]: i actually kind of got the sense
that

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: in fact

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: something was not right when

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: you know he follows caligory

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: to the insane asylum and he walks
and he

[raj]: kay

[Ben]: said is there patient

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: cacaligory and s like no they find
out that the cagaryis running the asylum and

[Ben]: all the doctors

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: immediately side with him

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: not with calgary and

[raj]: so

[Ben]: next thing you know calgary s under
observation and like well that doesn't seem rational

[Ben]: or real

[raj]: so i wrote that as part of
my favorite scene and we'll get right i'll

[raj]: just by as well jump around to
it

[Ben]: hey this movie

[raj]: and

[Ben]: is

[raj]: actually

[Ben]: insane

[raj]: thought that was funny i thought out
it was like hey wait a minute the

[raj]: doctors sure are taking the side of
some outsider they don't even know they're like

[raj]: oh we believe him will wait till
caligari is sleeping into his office look through

[raj]: his private notes in his desk

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: to find out if he's a madman
and

[Ben]: ah

[raj]: doctors are like okay let's do it

[Ben]: yeah i mean

[raj]: and i wonder if that's to give
a hint for like people that are like

[Ben]: yah

[raj]: one step ahead when they're watching this
movie like anyway something is not right here

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: yeah well yeah i mean well something
is never quite right i mean the fact

[Ben]: is you always it is at no
point are they ever

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: to giving you a sense that anything
is okay that is the theme of the

[Ben]: movie

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: everything is to tell

[raj]: i

[Ben]: you that things are not all right

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: down from like the sets to

[raj]: okay

[Ben]: the characters the actual appearance of category
himself

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: the fact that you this bizarre

[raj]: ah

[Ben]: side show act it's just nothing

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: nothing at all at any

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: point tries to give

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: you a sense

[raj]: ah

[Ben]: of normality

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: or a lack of danger you know
and like you know one of the first

[Ben]: thing that introduces a sonambulists and i
am like somnambulist

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: what's the

[raj]: do

[Ben]: sonambulist and you know i never looked
it up

[raj]: you

[Ben]: to

[raj]: looked

[Ben]: try

[raj]: it

[Ben]: to

[raj]: up

[Ben]: find out

[raj]: you didn't look it up

[Ben]: eh

[raj]: i looked it up

[Ben]: oh well you got to tell me
what is the senambalist

[raj]: a sleep walker

[Ben]: except well he does do some he
does do

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: some sleep walking yeah but

[raj]: but you know let's you know i'll
get to some of the favorite scenes actually

[raj]: because i said then we could go
go on to what you were saying but

[raj]: like jumping back a bet or like
the part where you were like so he

[raj]: goes to the town clerk

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: and like i'm just amazed by the
whole set aside of like this little hall

[raj]: is like he's sitting on the chair
that's really high up he's got to bend

[raj]: way over on to his desk like
i'm thinking

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: this town clerk is not related to
urganomics

[Ben]: ah i thought of him as a
symbol of just kind of bureaucratic authority he's

[Ben]: not a king

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: he's not

[raj]: ye

[Ben]: an elected official he is simply a
bureaucrat but he might as well be got

[Ben]: as far as like what you can
do and where you can be i mean

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: i'm sure a lot of people look
at him that way and he really is

[raj]: yah

[Ben]: justice

[raj]: that is like actually a common theme
and movie sometimes where like the hero

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: is on his journey and runs into
like some sort of like bureaucrat that has

[raj]: this

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: unbelievable power but this

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: buracrat or this person is not the
bad i

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: sure as well by as well be

[Ben]: well i mean if you ever seen

[raj]: at

[Ben]: the twelve tasks of astrics it's animated

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: it's a cartoon but one of

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: them is one of the twelve herculean
tasks as he has to you know get

[Ben]: a copy of a certain form from
burocratic

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: building and they almost don't succeed it
becomes

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: a mind maddening

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: it's like you know the ancient greek
version

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: of like being you know of ulysses
being torn you tied to the mass and

[Ben]: being driven crazy the sirens

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: except for in this case it's just
simple bureaucracy which just brings the heroes to

[Ben]: a state of madness of course that's
a different movie

[raj]: a

[Ben]: but you know i mean i can
imagine like if calgary

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: calgary was clearly crazy

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: going in there and this did not
help

[raj]: m

[Ben]: now

[raj]: well

[Ben]: your first impression of calgary is the
bizarre combed hair the mickey mouse loves these

[Ben]: are literally micky mouse gloves

[raj]: ah

[Ben]: and the way his eyes

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: he seems to be able

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: to get his eyes to move in
two different directions at the same time

[raj]: yeah yeah

[Ben]: and you're just like holy cow this
is not one of them good doctors

[raj]: no no i

[Ben]: this

[raj]: mean right

[Ben]: is not dor

[raj]: and that's

[Ben]: who

[raj]: i think with the casting and the
costumes that's like you know like this guy

[raj]: is not a good doctor probably the
bad guy in the movie

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: and

[Ben]: he's not a good doctor and now
he's not misunderstood either

[raj]: but what's funny

[Ben]: except

[raj]: he

[Ben]: he

[raj]: gets

[Ben]: is

[raj]: he goes he goes to visit the
town clerk and immediately he's like dis respected

[raj]: he's like no no no wait he's
been told to wait a couple of times

[raj]: told of sitting in a chair so
he's waiting and then when he fought italy

[Ben]: ah

[raj]: gets the town clerk it's like the
town clerk

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: is on his way leaving like clock
it out go and help and the last

[raj]: person that he asked to see is
dr caligari dr call caleras like hail ent

[raj]: permit for the carnival the town fair

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and to be a somnambulist and the
laugh and the dismissiveness of the town clerk

[raj]: is so funny and then the reaction

[Ben]: m

[raj]: of dr caligari it's like he is
pissed off

[Ben]: but he got his pere he was
there at the town

[raj]: he got

[Ben]: fair

[raj]: his perfect the town clerk does signal
to

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: one of the staff guys to come
over and help him out and he gets

[raj]: his permit and then the town fair
is like the next scene and what i

[raj]: love about the scene is before dr
caligari uh enters the frame he kind of

[raj]: show the cardival and we got t
be thinking like they don't show a whole

[raj]: lot like the camera doesn't move i
don't think it moves at all it just

[raj]: shows it that one scene you see
a background of ple walking back and forth

[raj]: then you see a cart with a
monkey and a guy and people coming across

[raj]: and pay in money and i was
thinking it was like you know that's pretty

[raj]: economical you know they didn't build a
huge carnival town fair set just one frame

[raj]: middle but you know it's a town
frame and people are paid to pay the

[raj]: guy i with the monkey and i
kept thinking man that monkey is not doing

[raj]: much and it seems like the people
that are paying for the monkey aren't very

[raj]: impressed

[Ben]: my

[raj]: like they pay and then they leave
like two seconds afterwards

[Ben]: i mean

[raj]: uh

[Ben]: you know after you see a sanambalist

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: how impressed can you be with a
monkey

[raj]: well it was before we see this
sanambulist but yes

[raj]: well you know when i see a

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: monkey i kep my i can't take
my eyes off of it so including in

[raj]: this v

[Ben]: well okay

[raj]: so hey shall we go to the
scene when we first see the when we

[raj]: first see caesar the sundambalist

[Ben]: sure

[raj]: so that's a great scene he's got
a crowded house

[Ben]: m yeah

[raj]: like it's a packed house like everybody's
there

[Ben]: well it's kind of one interesting you
know one you

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: know looking back on it if this
guy is

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: running in a sane asylum why did
i need the money the side show carnival

[Ben]: apt isn't

[raj]: but we don't know that yet

[Ben]: we

[raj]: though

[Ben]: don't know that yet yeah he just
seems to be kind of this mad doctor

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: you know we don't really realize that
especially the way he's treated by the town

[Ben]: cork that he's actually somebody somewhat respected
man in the community which is why it

[Ben]: is such a surprise when you do
find

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: out that he is obviously not too
respected because his own doctors basically decided

[raj]: my

[Ben]: to trust the guy coming off the
street like hey i think this guy is

[Ben]: a crazy killer

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: yeah well okay which it we'll believe
you yeah

[raj]: so h and then when he finally
brings out cesar the sleep walker

[Ben]: m

[raj]: and i think he like she's like
caesar will tell you your faith or answer

[raj]: any question

[Ben]: yeah any question at all

[raj]: and yeah and and when allen francis
s friend raises his hand i think francis

[raj]: is already having bad vives he's like
tugging on his on his shoulder his r

[raj]: he's like closed telling him like no
no no you don't want to do this

[raj]: it's like he already knows he's got
bad vibes on it uh but ale goes

[raj]: through with it and actually as one
of my favorite sees with

[Ben]: okay

[raj]: when caesar tells alive that you're gonna
be dying soon like

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: next morning uh

[Ben]: at the break you will live till
the break of dawn

[raj]: and the look on alan's face was
absolute horror

[Ben]: well he was taken

[raj]: a

[Ben]: in by this act

[raj]: yeah so yeah exactly like it wasn't
like for him like a joke

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: in a good time it was like
holy smoke

[Ben]: m

[raj]: that's dark

[Ben]: that is dark

[raj]: like i came here to have a
good time and all of a sudden now

[raj]: this guy is telling

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: me i'm going to die i mean
it's one thing you

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: go to those things and the guy
would tell you like you're going to meet

[raj]: the love of your life and get
married tomorrow

[Ben]: ah

[raj]: but no

[Ben]: well but this might actually

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: be a good strategy for a carnival
act you're not going to survive the night

[Ben]: spend your money now spend it here
you ain't going to be

[raj]: m

[Ben]: around

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: the morning and can't take it with
you come on come on we got caught

[Ben]: candy there's so

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: many more shows and rides

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: bull it now

[raj]: yeah but you know it's funny though
so then after the carnival you see both

[raj]: allen and francis walk you can tell
allen still a little bit shaken and then

[raj]: they do meet

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: chain and we get the idea that
jane both allen and francis love jane

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and it looks like jane loves both
of them

[Ben]: m

[raj]: and so it's like okay things are
on the up and up but did you

[raj]: see dr caligari come out of nowhere

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: i don't if you remember that scene
where he comes out and he turns off

[raj]: like one of the one of the
lamps outside

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: it's like he's setting something up and
then that's when they see that like that

[raj]: the poster for reward of like

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: murder that's on the loose am i
getting that

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: right and then shortly after that and
that's what kind of got me that's why

[raj]: i wrote down like the town clerk
because i was like when the town clerk

[raj]: was laughing at dr caligari and dr
cower gives a peturbablook and i was like

[raj]: oh something is going to happen to
the to the clerk the how because you

[raj]: don't you don't disrespect a evil doctor
like that and he's the first to get

[raj]: killed

[Ben]: yeah i mean well i mean the
thing

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: is though you don't really know that
necessarily there's going to end up murder you

[Ben]: know something bad is going to happen
but you also kind of think that oh

[Ben]: you must be kind of a minor
character m you know

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: would think that it would just be
this huge thing but i mean yeah you

[Ben]: never expected the court well the court
isn't a major character but

[raj]: and it kind of gets me thinking
though so if this movie is a flash

[raj]: back

[Ben]: ah

[raj]: and a dream something that's just in
francis's head would you even have with would

[raj]: you even have the town clerk and
would you even would you even see that

[raj]: point of view

[Ben]: you never know

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: it's i mean it's something where it
is i think that in many ways

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: logic is

[raj]: h

[Ben]: deliberately you know they try to exercise
it from the script they try to make

[Ben]: the script not crazy enough where the
audience is going to walk out

[raj]: h yep

[Ben]: crazy enough where you're always kind of
disturbed there's an uneasiness

[raj]: yep

[Ben]: you know when you think about things
that were oftentimes done i don't believe this

[Ben]: was done in this case but when

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: like for example directors will happen actor

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: walk backwards and then filment and reverse

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: make an uneasy walking forward it's

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: you get that kind of unsettling

[raj]: yeah oh

[Ben]: feel about every

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: aspect the way people behave the way
people move

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: the way everything

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: is you know and again like the
lack of any kind of normal structure anywhere

[Ben]: none of it

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: yeah you know none of it is
there

[raj]: ye

[Ben]: is absolutely nothing there to be reassuring

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: it's you know the enormous use of
darkness you i mean the fact is you're

[Ben]: in the vision of a madman

[raj]: yep

[Ben]: wonderfully

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: acted out by some amazing actors

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: but

[raj]: agree i mentioned that earlier i thought
dr caligari was the the actor that played

[raj]: werner cross was amazing

[Ben]: well

[raj]: in this

[Ben]: and

[raj]: movie

[Ben]: also for example comrade vi who plays
caesar

[raj]: oh caesar

[Ben]: because

[raj]: the sleep walker

[Ben]: you know this is a guy his

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: career you know starts in grey born
in germany

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: you know here he is in in
berlin he ends up in britain he becomes

[Ben]: a british is and he ends up
in america

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: where

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: he's probably

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: most

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: famous for his rule in casablanca

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: as

[raj]: yah

[Ben]: the evil

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: s s captain but we

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: we got a new cast a blank
that's one of my favorite here's also another

[Ben]: movies in

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: where it's the man who laughed we
talked about actors who were the motivation

[raj]: m

[Ben]: or comic book characters the guy who
plays the plays caesar

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: another rule becomes a motivation

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: for the joker in the batman

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: series he is this iconic

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: person who also

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: plays more than one igoniciconic character even
boris carloff or bella gos very iconic

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: but

[raj]: ah

[Ben]: and boris karlov ever played another ionic
character he played the ranch and how the

[Ben]: green stole christmas but

[raj]: m

[Ben]: other than that you know you

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: know boris girl off in two really
iconiccharacters

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: bello go see well

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: i suppose the but i mean well
even i mean you know he kind of

[Ben]: plays a mad guy

[raj]: we

[Ben]: in the ed wood movies but you
know but in that really

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: only one iconic character

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: so they have more than one that's
really saying something

[raj]: yeah no no he's great as

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: caesar he really is and

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: i mean he really is kind of
terrified

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: even when you first see him at
that at the like the review at the

[raj]: town fair when he when he i
think he's like in a coffin

[Ben]: well one thing you

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: know i kind of wondered

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: when i

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: first saw him because when i first
saw him my first impression was tim curry

[Ben]: and rocky horror picture show

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: and i had to ask i've checked
up checked up checked up checked

[raj]: yah

[Ben]: i haven't found any evidence for this
but you got to wonder

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: if this could have been

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: motivated tim curry's character in the rocky
or picture because there's nobody else who really

[Ben]: dresses quite like tim curry in the
rocky

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: horror picture show so i don't know
if that is just a sheer coincidence but

[Ben]: i have a hard time

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: believing it's not

[raj]: it wouldn't surprise me

[Ben]: similarity

[raj]: i mean

[Ben]: is just

[raj]: it was

[Ben]: so great and then

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: again

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: there is no other character in the
rocky horo picture show who looks like that

[raj]: ye

[Ben]: m i mean they're all like you
know they're all you know flamboyantly you know

[Ben]: dressed you flamboyant make

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: up but nobody looks like that but
you never know you never know

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: i mean even though if necessarily the
actors would know oh

[raj]: you know speaking of caesar um so
even though dr caligari is a madman evil

[raj]: doctor you he does take care of
cesar you know he houses

[Ben]: no

[raj]: him he feeds him by the spoon
i think like a father would do for

[raj]: his son

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: when the cops come

[Ben]: a

[raj]: or the authorities com his first instinct
is to not let them inside the house

[raj]: protect him and

[Ben]: oh yeah oh

[raj]: i okay

[Ben]: yes

[raj]: it's like

[Ben]: m

[raj]: he loves him

[Ben]: oh we

[raj]: so i thought i thought that was
just a great scene like you know like

[raj]: in the house when you when you

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: get to see and that's why

[Ben]: it's

[raj]: go

[Ben]: one

[raj]: ahead

[Ben]: of those scenes where you want you're
like oh no the villain is going to

[Ben]: get caught and the way that they
create that tends like oh

[raj]: so

[Ben]: no the

[raj]: true

[Ben]: villain is going to get caught he's
trying to do everything and then

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: of course now you have a situation
where

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: the cops come in they have their
warrant

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: and they're going to interview this guy
the problems that can't

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: wake him up and

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: you know

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: it is this very bizarre situation because
you wonder if they did open him up

[Ben]: wake him up what would he what
would you say

[Ben]: what would he say because again this

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: is a guy you can ask

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: any questions

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: yep

[raj]: you know when you bring up a
good point actually

[Ben]: m

[raj]: just to just backing up a little
bit i'll be honest with you i was

[raj]: actually when the cops came over to
dr calegari'shous i was on the side of

[raj]: dr caligari i didn't want him to
get caught

[Ben]: no

[raj]: no

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: you know and we don't know for
sure obviously he's the evil guy but we

[raj]: don't know

[Ben]: what

[raj]: for sure that he

[Ben]: i actually kind of wonder because it
seems so convolutent if maybe there would be

[raj]: m

[Ben]: a twist maybe there was some other
killer and you do get that especially when

[Ben]: they start chasing

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: another killer and that guy and that
guy is clearly

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: evil that guy

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: you're like oh what

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: i

[raj]: no

[Ben]: now

[raj]: no he is truly evil and even
he even admits he's like okay yeah i

[raj]: did try to kill the old woman

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: but i didn't kill the other two
people i just

[Ben]: so i can go now

[raj]: use the same murder weapon

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: just so you guys wouldn't find me

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: i forgot about that scene that was
just let the people know that we were

[raj]: supposed

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: to do this pod last week but
we both of our schedules got a little

[raj]: bit busy so yeah

[Ben]: it was

[raj]: you're

[Ben]: all

[raj]: just

[Ben]: supposed

[raj]: bringing

[Ben]: to be

[raj]: up

[Ben]: before

[raj]: some scenes

[Ben]: hall lean we had two movies lined
up and none of them got done but

[raj]: yeah well helloeiza it's a tough holiday
to it's a

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: isy weekend but

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: yeah that was i forgot about that
and i'm glad you brought that up and

[raj]: you're right

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: it's like even as the audience we
don't know dr caligari but there's got to

[raj]: be something said like i actually felt
for dr caligari seeing him get laughed at

[raj]: by the town clerk no it was
just like i already had the sympathy for

[raj]: him

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and now they have the cops and
francis after him

[Ben]: the

[raj]: and

[Ben]: other

[raj]: i'm

[Ben]: thing

[raj]: just

[Ben]: is also

[raj]: like

[Ben]: when francis sits up all night with
calgary watching you know what he believes is

[Ben]: caesar lying

[raj]: a

[Ben]: in the coffin and the cabinet is
technically the cabinet and you said and

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: he's like no it couldn't have been
here i i

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: watched them they didn't go anywhere all
night they stayed

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: there all night he's got the he's
got he is the alibi he is the

[Ben]: alibi for his friend's

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: killer

[raj]: yeah yeah i mean francis does

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: an old fashioned stake out

[Ben]: yeah nothing wrong with that

[raj]: nothing wrong

[Ben]: nothing

[raj]: with that

[Ben]: creepy

[raj]: end

[Ben]: like nothing creepy about sitting outside somebody's
window

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: watching him all night long

[raj]: no very creepy but he's not a
cop we actually don't even know what francis

[raj]: does

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: but hey if that's good old like
detective work though or investigated work you know

[raj]: you do it take out and but

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: what's great like during the stake out

[Ben]: yes

[raj]: it flashes to the scene where you
see caesar

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: uh

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and the cesar's going out and enters
jane's home and tries to kill her then

[raj]: he instead of killing her he decides
to abduct her and then he's getting chased

[raj]: by the the angry mob and i
love how the angry mob like uh just

[raj]: like in the movie that we saw
a fan of the opera

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: they're there they're out there seeking justice

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: i mean he face the hook you
know you live in a small town not

[Ben]: a lot happens you don't want to
let an angry mob go because who knows

[Ben]: when you're going to get that chance
again

[raj]: yeah and not only that like if
you lived in that small town it's a

[raj]: small town you may have arguments

[Ben]: okay

[raj]: and enemies within that town but any
outsider that comes in and s is with

[raj]: what of your

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: community

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: you're going to gang up and get
him

[Ben]: yeah oh yeah

[raj]: i like the use of the fake
doll the manikin of cesar to fake out

[raj]: the cops because when when

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: when francis goes back and finds out
that jane was abducted and now she's recovering

[raj]: was like oh no it couldn't have
been caesar dr caligari

[Ben]: or could

[raj]: i watched

[Ben]: it

[raj]: them all night

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and so they went when he went
to the house and then they had a

[raj]: warrant

[Ben]: yep

[raj]: yeah and when

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: they opened up the the crate and
they find out the doll um i like

[raj]: how dr caligory just kind of like

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: ran right out of there

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: and straight to the asylum

[Ben]: well yeah they jason well he's only
being chased by one portion at that point

[Ben]: and

[raj]: is it francis

[Ben]: yeah and so france is the only
one who season go in there

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: francis runs in there convinced the doctor
is

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: that in fact the the respected

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: head of the institution is insane

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: with almost no effort at all

[raj]: uh

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: uh oh yeah yeah like the the
doctors at the at the sad totally take

[raj]: francis for his word at it

[Ben]: yeah what's

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: not to trust

[raj]: h yeah

[Ben]: m

[raj]: hey so can we talk about the
n c unless there's any other seeds you

[raj]: wanted to

[Ben]: um

[raj]: talk about

[Ben]: let's see

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: the unseen yeah well we can talk
about the unseen

[raj]: so so then we find out then
we see france

[Ben]: what

[raj]: it flashes back to the present you
know

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: and you see francis talking to the
old band and then all of a sudden

[raj]: francis seize caesar

[Ben]: yeah awake

[raj]: and he's awake he's not sleep walking

[Ben]: and

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: and smiling

[raj]: smiling

[Ben]: and strikes him he

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: is this kind of gentle character and
he seems almost to be in love which

[Ben]: you now show him displaying emotions you
never seen him display before and then you're

[Ben]: starting now i couldn't tell who else
was there

[raj]: jane is there

[Ben]: jane yeah i'm in jane's there obviously
but i mean for example i didn't see

[Ben]: whether allen was there or

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: anybody else who would because i was
kind of wondering you know how what what

[Ben]: is the character of allen because he
is his friend he's obviously important and so

[Ben]: i was looking but i couldn't be
sure you know one of the problems of

[Ben]: film quality is an one of the
characters cs because

[raj]: i don't recall seeing alan there and
obviously they never brought it up so if

[raj]: he was there

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: we would have to go back and
find it but it can also leave open

[raj]: to maybe that francis's story

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: it's real

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: allen really is dad

[Ben]: uh maybe well maybe

[raj]: and

[Ben]: or maybe francis killed allan

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: maybe

[raj]: well

[Ben]: that's why he's in the asylum

[raj]: well that's what i was kind of
thinking was

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: what if there are no good guys
even the director who really is ecretly dr

[raj]: caligari because when he sees the director

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: the asylum could walk out and francis
like oh that's dr caligari i think he

[raj]: attacks him right

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: and then the security and other people
commonly separate the two and then they restrain

[raj]: francis and then you see the director

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and he's dressed differently and kind of
like you were mention he's like is that

[raj]: dr caligari

[Ben]: you can't

[raj]: i think

[Ben]: tell

[raj]: it

[Ben]: until

[raj]: is

[Ben]: he put

[raj]: but

[Ben]: his glasses on

[raj]: yeah you really and so he puts
all his glasses on and then he says

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: oh i understand

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: this francis's delusion

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and i think i could cure up

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and i think he puts his glasses
off as he says that and then the

[raj]: film turns into a circle narrowing his
face and the look on his face was

[raj]: like oh

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: maybe this director is not a good
guy he kind of gave the dr caligari

[raj]: look

[Ben]: well

[raj]: and does

[Ben]: he is

[raj]: he mean by curing them oh i'm
sorry go ahead

[Ben]: well i got the sense that actually

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: you know maybe he can

[raj]: oh you're more optimistic than i can't
i am so you're thinking he could cure

[raj]: of and i'm thinking he's going to
go back to his old eighteenth century books

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: make france is his

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: new caesar

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: and they came into a sleep walker
and then start committing murders around town

[Ben]: m

[Ben]: m

[raj]: he has found his caesar and it's
francis

[Ben]: well could it be that maybe allan
is not dead could it be that allen

[Ben]: was in the asylum is now cured
and outside living a normal life ye

[raj]: and now francis would be like that
would be just like allen

[Ben]: well francis all francis knows is that
his friend

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: is no more

[Ben]: who knows i mean that's the thing
about it is like

[raj]: yeah i who knows

[Ben]: who knows

[raj]: well i guess just from i guess
from the creepy look that dr caligari gives

[raj]: at the end i'm just thinking like
oh

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: he is down going to make francis

[Ben]: ah

[raj]: a sleep walker

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: burger sleep walker ah ye

[Ben]: or

[raj]: but you know what i do like
your optimism and see it good in people

[Ben]: oh i got to say i do
i do i do i want to see

[Ben]: the best in people oh

[raj]: even in this mad bizarre world that
the d the cabinet

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: of dr caligari takes place

[Ben]: i mean i mean and the other
thing i do look at is like i

[Ben]: couldn't find allen

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: you never really see the cork well
enough to see if he among the patients

[Ben]: you just never do

[raj]: you know the other thing

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: is that a little outdoor or the

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: area in the asylum when it flashes
back to the present

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: that's kind of like a normal looking
set

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: so it's not like we're not in
this like bizarre weirld world that

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: we thought was reality but really was
just all francis as had

[Ben]: i mean it's it's it's the sanest
scene in the whole

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: man that's the irony the insane asylum
scene is the sanest scene it is the

[Ben]: least distorted est insane

[raj]: even from the outside the building is

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: normal it's not all slanted or crooked
the windows are i think the normal the

[raj]: the director's office

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: is well proportioned like

[Ben]: o

[raj]: everything is just like it would be
in real life but everything

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: that was in francis's head

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: look like some sort of like

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: bizarre world of a guard

[Ben]: ah

[raj]: type of pity yeah

[Ben]: yeah i mean

[raj]: all right

[Ben]: i can't argue

[raj]: you

[Ben]: with

[raj]: have

[Ben]: any

[raj]: convince

[Ben]: of that

[raj]: fi

[Ben]: and but that's

[raj]: that

[Ben]: also

[raj]: is kind

[Ben]: when

[raj]: of

[Ben]: you

[raj]: brilliant

[Ben]: get to see okay

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: maybe um oh god i'm banking on
her name is

[raj]: j

[Ben]: jane you know you your first impression
you sorrily dramatized but then

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: the first time you really get to
see her speak and you realize that she

[Ben]: is freaking out of her mind she
is in a delusional

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: world and her delusional world is completely
different from his she is in her own

[Ben]: completely delusional world and it has nothing
to do there's nobody getting killed that looks

[Ben]: like there's no abduction

[raj]: m

[Ben]: there's no carnivals she is a princess

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: and she is fulfilling her

[raj]: a

[Ben]: regal

[raj]: queen

[Ben]: duties

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: you know and she she's her complete
own delusion which he can't see because he's

[Ben]: in his own delusion he somehow things

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: that you know she's in his world

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: and he's not

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: i don't know i mean to a
certain extent it seems like she thinks and

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: he is in her world like some
suitor may be a prince from a far

[Ben]: away land who's

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: you know you never know how she

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: sees him simply that she says that
they can't be together

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: but i mean you know i really
do think that you know my impression is

[Ben]: that you know this has all been
the crazy delusion

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: in his mind and that is it's
all

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: that's all there is to it

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: you see

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: you see and like it's one

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: of the tins where when you re
watch it having watched it and knowing what's

[Ben]: going on you start to see francis's

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: insanity his anerisms even when you're thinking
he's sane

[raj]: i'm going to have to re watch
this movie again i might i might let

[raj]: it sit for a while before we
watch it

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: but

[Ben]: yeah i mean this would

[raj]: i think

[Ben]: be a good

[raj]: but

[Ben]: halloween

[raj]: i think

[Ben]: movie

[raj]: i think i would probably pick up
some things

[Ben]: eh

[raj]: that i didn't notice the first time
i only watched this when we did this

[raj]: when you suggested this movie i haven't
seen it before so this this was the

[raj]: first time i saw uh

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: uh it was a great choice at
the movie did not disappoint ye

[Ben]: well i'm glad always glad when things
don't disappoint

[raj]: you have a you

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: have a good taste in films

[Ben]: well actually i actually had recommended this

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: i think i may have watched maybe
the first scene

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: and that's when i said oh we
should do this

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: but

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: yeah it is an amazing movie it
can't

[raj]: ye

[Ben]: beat the sets i guess you could
there was a there was a hitchcock movie

[Ben]: where salvador dolly

[raj]: i've seen that

[Ben]: design

[raj]: movie

[Ben]: the

[raj]: it is

[Ben]: try no

[raj]: one

[Ben]: remember

[raj]: of the

[Ben]: what it was but other than that

[raj]: it is i'll look it up right
now it is one of the

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: most different h hitchcock movies i've ve
ever seen

[Ben]: because that's not really

[raj]: spell

[Ben]: a style

[raj]: bound

[Ben]: the dream sequence isn't really a

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: hitchcock thing

[raj]: the spell bound

[Ben]: spell bound

[raj]: yeah very good movie very tricky movie

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: unlike any other hitchcock movie i've ever
seen ye

[Ben]: yeah i've

[raj]: uh

[Ben]: actually never seen it i've actually never
seen it i actually on know about it

[Ben]: from reading about

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: sounder dolly

[raj]: well worth the watch and if you're
a hitchcock fan which i think you are

[raj]: you would enjoy the movie ah

[Ben]: so yeah let's

[raj]: ye

[Ben]: see is there anything else to this
you think

[raj]: i have nothing else to say you
you were doing some research on on i

[raj]: m d b if you wanted to
bring up some stuff the one thing i

[raj]: wanted to tell you was just for
reading the wikopedia page

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: fritz lang the great director

[Ben]: okay

[raj]: who directed a metropole metropolis

[Ben]: metropolis

[raj]: sorry petropolis thank you

[Ben]: fromnfrnmond

[raj]: he was actually and he was actually

[Ben]: m

[raj]: slated to direct this but because of
schedule conflict he had to drop

[Ben]: well

[raj]: out

[Ben]: one thing you will

[raj]: and

[Ben]: notice is that there's a number of
people some minor actors not

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: the major ones but the minor

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: ones also did movies with fritz lang
you could tell

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: that this was very much the same
acting circuits i don't know how the studio

[Ben]: system worked in you know in germany
compared to hollywood but you know for example

[Ben]: in holywood you had one brother actors
n

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: had united artists actors and you had
universal actors and m g m actors and

[Ben]: they

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: tended to be very long term contracts
and so you didn't see them move

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: apart a lot but

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: i don't know if that was the
same way it worked in germany but

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: there are it's

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: not just the actors who are connected
here

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: actually i will say a few things
a lot of this is based on the

[Ben]: writer's um you know care mayer's ideas
current layers he himself pleaded insanity try to

[Ben]: feign insanity to avoid service in over
one the scene where caesar predicts the future

[Ben]: of allen is actually somewhat based on
a fortune or who in this case predicted

[Ben]: that he would survive the war which
he did like but could you know it's

[Ben]: probably thinking well what would they have
done if the fortune teller predicted i was

[Ben]: going to die before the next day
and but a lot of this is actually

[Ben]: based on his own experiences and his
own thoughts his own feelings about authority is

[Ben]: not just the clerk who sits on
these high chairs but also the police ficers

[Ben]: sit on these really high chairs and
where so that they looked down on anybody

[Ben]: who comes in um you know there's
a

[raj]: ye

[Ben]: distinct kind of not liking authority

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: not

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: liking crowds

[raj]: ye

[Ben]: you know whether the

[raj]: yep

[Ben]: authority is the doctor or the authorities
the police or that crazy town

[raj]: yah

[Ben]: clerk

[raj]: h yeah

[Ben]: but a good movie really good movie

[raj]: yeah no it is definitely is

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: yeah so i don't have much else
to add on the movie do you have

[raj]: anything else you wanted to say

[Ben]: well one of the things that really
dustrike me was

[raj]: kay

[Ben]: you know postware germany an a lot
of money to work with these sets

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: in these sets are incredibly

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: frugal they were really working now

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: dirt

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: cheap but at the same time fritz
lang is also making movies at the same

[Ben]: time

[raj]: h yeah

[Ben]: and his sets are amazing

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: yep

[Ben]: now a lot of those were also

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: you know made with wooden stuff like
that but there is such a difference and

[Ben]: it really kind of strikes

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: me as why is that

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: and

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: again you know i do not know
i mean there's so

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: often you know so much of this
has been lost men this is berlin after

[raj]: yeah yeah

[Ben]: we were one they didn't have a
huge amount of money they weren't making

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: huge numbers of copies of their scripts
and stuff like that and then also

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: a huge amount of stuff was just
simply lost well were to this is berlin

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: it fell under the soviet side the
soviet probably weren't were not all that interested

[Ben]: in you know trying to maintain this

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: so a lot of

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: people would have probably who had worked
on this who could have told the list

[Ben]: of what happened behind the scene were
probably

[raj]: uh

[Ben]: behind the red curtain or behind the
iron curtain

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: and stayed there until they died so
there's a lot of stuff where it's just

[Ben]: we don't know we don't know as
far as what's going on beyond the scenes

[Ben]: some of the actors did escape you
know westward so they could tell their story

[Ben]: but you know probably large numbers of
people who could have answered

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: these questions simply weren't in positions to
answer any questions

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: well you

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: were mentioning about like the lack of
money and stuff like that and so

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: they had to take some cut some
corners on the design but i think it

[raj]: works for its benefit though

[Ben]: i think it did

[raj]: so oh

[Ben]: you know but i mean is one
of the things where you're reading that a

[Ben]: lot of it was just because of
the budget but on the other hand you

[Ben]: know fritz lane

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: his budget you know his movies the
budgets now he now fritz lang was a

[Ben]: master of creating tiny models

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: create enormous

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: scenes i mean he does metropolis he
does it in fralamond and

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: you know he was a master of
that ability to miniturize things

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: and make it completely convincing but

[raj]: yep

[Ben]: even still

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: the difference

[raj]: yeah oh

[Ben]: between fritz lang set and the fritz
laying is just amazing

[raj]: i think

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: if fritz lang direct this movie would

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: have been a different movie i think
the camera would have moved more

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: uh

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: i mean obviously like

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: fritz lang is a master craftsman you
know just

[Ben]: yes

[raj]: way ahead of his time

[Ben]: a

[raj]: uh

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: kind of like hitchcock before hitchcock and
so i think the movie would have been

[raj]: a more suspenseful and maybe even like

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: have a ittle bit more realism

[Ben]: yeah i mean now the thing is
and now at no point in a ritzlaying

[Ben]: movie do you ever get the sense
like it's it's fictional i'm trying to remember

[raj]: yes

[Ben]: there was a fritzlang movie

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: after you left germany went to

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: free it's

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: this the one where the guy

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: spends this period of time in hell
hoping for forgiveness but even even in that

[Ben]: the visions of heaven and hell is
their buracricies and so on no it's it's

[Ben]: like you know heaven is still a
work place there are forms

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: that need to be filled out and
there's all this other stuff i mean fritz

[Ben]: line even in a fantasy

[raj]: okay

[Ben]: you know how fit realism gets in
everywhere yeah i mean it just gets in

[Ben]: everywhere with it like where is this
realism has really been shoved out it's been

[Ben]: purged from every last corner of every
last frame except at the very end where

[Ben]: you the reveal is you're in an
asinus

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: and finally for the first time you

[raj]: a

[Ben]: see clearly

[raj]: oh

[raj]: you know i wonder if like a
guy like charlie coffman the writer and director

[raj]: i wonder if he was been influenced
by this movie

[Ben]: a lot of people have

[raj]: of

[Ben]: this

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: is apparently one of the big influences

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: on curacorsala was

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: i mean i hope that's

[raj]: the

[Ben]: it

[raj]: great

[Ben]: i've

[raj]: japanese

[Ben]: actually been

[raj]: director

[Ben]: researching two movies at the same time

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: so but memory serves

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: it was a big influence on

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: a career saga this is

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: also robert ever really thought it was
an amazing movie

[raj]: oh yeah i did see robert he
called it the first true horror movie

[Ben]: well i would actually say

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: i mean it's still after edison's frankenstein
edison's frankenstein beats it by

[raj]: ye

[Ben]: ten years

[raj]: got it

[Ben]: so and that is still very much
a horror movie with one amazing

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: scene right in the middle

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: which by the way we can do
it at some point but you know that's

[Ben]: it's going to be a very short
podcast is only a twenty minute movie but

[raj]: uh you know what i wouldn't i
wouldn't put that prediction out we have done

[raj]: a couple of podcasts where we've lapped

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: ruddy type of the movie

[Ben]: well

[raj]: we

[Ben]: it's

[raj]: have done

[Ben]: like

[raj]: it before especially especially if there's a
lot of stuff to talk about

[Ben]: look if you don't have the time
to sit through the podcast just go watch

[Ben]: the movie

[raj]: well we don't have a big podcast
but we do have our fans and

[Ben]: ah

[raj]: so i'm sure they'll enjoy it

[Ben]: oh there's actually one other thing apparently

[raj]: is

[Ben]: the appearance

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: of dr cowgariis

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: actually based on the german philosopher shopenhawer
now by the way schopenhower is one of

[Ben]: these guys who talks about the triumph
you know of mind over matter and so

[Ben]: clearly there's the

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: influence there where

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: you got this guy who's thinking about
mind over matter

[raj]: yeah oh

[Ben]: it's also interesting because i'm sure probably
unknown to the director

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: at the time shopenhouris also this huge
influence on hitler and so for example later

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: on there's a very famous propaganda film
triumph of the will by wennyrefinstall

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: um

[raj]: my oh

[Ben]: so i mean

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: you you know

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: both both actors or both

[raj]: ah

[Ben]: directors are definitely

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: kind of drinking from the same philosophical

[raj]: oh yeah

[Ben]: inspiration as it were

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: although frankly i think the best jopenhour
reference in a movie is still roberta

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: banim and life is beautiful

[raj]: see the reference

[Ben]: well it's like you know him and
his friend you know they've traveled to rome

[Ben]: they're sharing a hotel room so they
have to share a bed and um and

[Ben]: his friend is saying show up and
our stuff and re basically using shopenhower's mind

[Ben]: over matter thing

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: to put himself to sleep he's just
like saying you know shopenhower says you just

[Ben]: guys say sleep sleep sleep sleep and
it will become reality and your sleep will

[Ben]: become reality and our ridiobrtbe is let
me try that and he turns to his

[Ben]: friend

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: away away away away at the like
what

[raj]: right

[Ben]: is like ain't worked it works chopenhower
it worked

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: and he will use schopenhower again shopenhowr
shopenhower shopenhower

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: but this time it's always he's trying
to do something

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: wonderful it's almost like he wheels that
magic again and again to get the woman

[Ben]: who will some day be his wife
nicotabrosi to look at him chopenhow or shopenhow

[Ben]: r turning

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: around turning around or when he tries
to get remember when his son is hiding

[Ben]: in the box in the german century
with the guard dog you know the dog

[Ben]: is going right towards where

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: this on is and he's like chopenhower
chopenhourshopen or wheeling the dog

[raj]: h

[Ben]: away from his son and saving

[raj]: h

[Ben]: his life you know and it's you

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: know there's there's the other shopenhour reference
which isn't over long pause if one

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: but i mean even you know but
beniti also would have known

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: that shopenhower was this kind of influence
n

[raj]: oh

[Ben]: the hilarian movement both

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: in reality and also on film there's
no white vanini doesn't know that

[raj]: no i'm sure he does and i
don't want to get too much into it

[raj]: but there's a great youtubeayoutube video out
there where

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: vanini

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: and his wife are being interviewed and
they talk about how much research

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: they do when they

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: write and make a movie so

[Ben]: well they get great results

[raj]: yeah definitely so i don't really have
much more else to add we're kind of

[raj]: getting almost to the hour mark fifty
one minutes is there anything else you wanted

[raj]: to bring up

[Ben]: how do you think rebertobanini and his
wife interview or did research to make johnny

[Ben]: stakin

[raj]: well that was the video i don't
want to get too far

[Ben]: okay

[raj]: into

[Ben]: okay

[raj]: it

[Ben]: never mind never mind

[raj]: no but i will mention i sent
you the video the video is one hour

[raj]: long so it's a you know you
got to have the time to watch it

[raj]: but actually that video

[Ben]: m

[raj]: is actually about

[Ben]: oh

[raj]: johnny casita and how much they like
went over every joke in that movie to

[raj]: make sure that it wasn't a wasted
joke did it contribute to the plot of

[raj]: the movie i contribute to the character
s of the movie

[Ben]: by the way we

[raj]: and

[Ben]: get a podcast

[raj]: it was

[Ben]: on this if

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: if you are interested you're getting

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: close to the end of this podcast
and if you're looking for another podcast

[raj]: yeah

[Ben]: that you would like to listen to
i would recommend johnny ticking o

[raj]: i totally agree and you can watch
that movie on youtubesactually a very hard movie

[raj]: to find um and the only version
of it you can find is on youtube

[raj]: it's not in the best resolution quality
but

[Ben]: it's better than

[raj]: it's

[Ben]: the b

[raj]: just where this movie

[Ben]: s tape

[raj]: is hard to

[Ben]: i

[raj]: find

[Ben]: got you know

[raj]: oh yeah for the folks that are
listening the v h s tape was something

[raj]: that old guys used to watch movies
from a long

[Ben]: they're

[raj]: time

[Ben]: great

[raj]: ago

[Ben]: paper weights too if you are

[raj]: so

[Ben]: watching the zombi movie and attacked by
zombies at the same time you could press

[Ben]: eject and use it as a weapon
to defend yourself you could bash him over

[Ben]: his head or you could pull the
tape out and strangle him with it

[raj]: that you could that

[Ben]: yeah

[raj]: you could so i think this is
probably a good time to end the pod

[raj]: could you just stay on to a
wild uploadsawesome

[Ben]: okay okay you think i'm grasping for
straws

[raj]: yes oh