Talking Cinema

[raj]: all right the ninth gate released

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: in nineteen ninety nine so i really
like this movie and it's

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: this one is a different one because
normally when we do the pa i've seen

[raj]: the movie before i know that when
you and i did something wild um that

[raj]: was the first time you watched it
but

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: i've seen it before

[shishir]: ye

[raj]: and this movie is actually the first
time i watched it

[shishir]: okay

[raj]: and m and i've always loved roman
plank movies i haven't seen all of his

[raj]: movies um but i have not seen
this one and it was released in nineteen

[raj]: ninety nine and nineteen ninety nine was
an incredible year for movies so

[shishir]: is

[raj]: at the end of the pot i'll
have to give the list of movies that

[raj]: came out in ninety nine but

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: this movie reminds me of old movie
like the old movies from the four it's

[raj]: in the fifty especially the first hour

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: um like the acting and the dialogue
they're muted and that was i think that

[raj]: was done on purpose like the lines
being delivered by johnny yap and frank lanjella

[raj]: like they're not over overacted

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: and if anything they're being under delivered
and along with the lining and the mood

[raj]: reminded me of a film nor

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and i love film norris and i
found this movie more mystery and thriller than

[raj]: horror

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: even though it involves the devil or
the devil is lurking

[shishir]: m

[raj]: and but i think palansky intended the
movie to be that way he's always been

[raj]: a ittle bit more suspense and horror
mean suspense and mystery though i mean he

[raj]: did direct rosemary's baby which is like
a different type of horror movie

[shishir]: i

[raj]: um so you don't get like the
cheap thrills that you normally get from horror

[raj]: movies but at the same time you
know this thing and like i never feared

[raj]: for de corso being killed and

[shishir]: eh

[raj]: it's not that he wasn't likable but

[shishir]: m

[raj]: i don't even think he elf like
himself

[shishir]: m

[raj]: and i don't even know if he
even cared for his own life that much

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and in that way it kind of
makes the movie a little funny

[shishir]: m

[raj]: because nothing phases him he's like a
rare book researcher finder part detective part evaluator

[raj]: he's also a little bit a con
man

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: maybe quite a bit and but courser
doesn't get too hung up with stuff like

[raj]: his apartment gets broken into

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and she's a nest everywhere he doesn't
think much of it

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: he evalized oh you know i got
a stash his book at my quote friend

[raj]: my partner owns a book store um
then leona comes over and he has sex

[raj]: with her and then she goes crazy
and attacks him knocks him unconscious of course

[raj]: i just wakes up the next day

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and freshes it off and continues on
with his vision uh the same i mean

[raj]: he was a little surprise i would
say her face when he saw his friend

[raj]: or his partner at the book store
get killed

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: but he tends to brush that off
fairly quickly um he's phase by the blond

[raj]: girl keep showing up

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: in different locations and even in different
cities

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: different countries he almost gets killed when
the scalfading from a building always falls on

[raj]: it

[shishir]: m

[raj]: it's like he has a death wish
and i wonder if corso

[raj]: you know they said he is in
it for the money but i wonder if

[raj]: he even likes the money it seems
like he just kind of going through life

[raj]: he michael waves his food with the
box in it

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and so we know he doesn't care
about food

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: he's not a food

[shishir]: m

[raj]: he's got no girl friend no wife
no real friends and you know it kind

[raj]: of makes me think that it makes
sense why the girl wins corso alive and

[raj]: wants him open and walk through the
night gate um oh it's a person that's

[raj]: not like evil but he's

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: not really good maybe multiple

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: where like frank la jella who's great
in this role and i couldn't get over

[raj]: his hair

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: i don't know if that was a
hair piece but just loved it

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: but he seems too eager to meet

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: the devil

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: and he would be the wrong choice

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: i think to walk through the gate
um and so theah that's what i thought

[raj]: this movie was kind of like i
don't know five love love this movie like

[raj]: if i had to give a star

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: my first inclination is out of four
stars i've given to three

[shishir]: m

[raj]: but more i think about it and
i'm talking to you i like i want

[raj]: to give it a three and a
half

[shishir]: it's nice

[raj]: so i just i liked it because
it was just i really like the character

[raj]: corso because he was just so in
phase by everything

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: yah

[shishir]: that's a really interesting really interesting observation
that you made actually you know one of

[shishir]: the things that i immediately

[raj]: ye

[shishir]: thought about courses care or versus all
the other characters in this like ninth gate

[shishir]: universe was that he was detached from
the world so to speak everyone else

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: had something that they really wanted like
they were very either extremist

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: or they like you know for for
some particular aspect where there is for a

[shishir]: collection of rare books or in that
cult society worshiping this so called lucifer

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: character but he was the only

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: one and actually even there's so many
other things i want to talk about it

[shishir]: but even then the nicer characters

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: they had some kind of

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: attachment to life so to speak

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: either interest in doing something like day
to day like that's good but but yeah

[shishir]: so what you're actually

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: describing was something that i also kind
of

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: saw and it i think johnnie deppe

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: does such a great job at showing
show casing that type of character

[raj]: m

[shishir]: behavior i it's very hard to do
right like you you know a lot of

[shishir]: people should

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like the hero or

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: the protagonist will will you know in
some sense show emotion or or what not

[shishir]: but it's literally

[raj]: m

[shishir]: you know like you said it just
doesn't really

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: phase of anything

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: in the any

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: encounter any any danger any reward it's
like okay yeah great yeah

[raj]: and when he takes it to one
level i mean he doesn't not just play

[raj]: the street man use the word detached
i mean he just playing somebody that's detached

[raj]: and i actually kind of like um
johnny get when he plays like the more

[raj]: straight man or the this type of
role is supposed because he does have a

[raj]: history of playing like characters are just
off beat benny in june prior to the

[raj]: caribbean i mean a lot of ike
i would saying moe than half his movies

[raj]: are like that but he

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: does like johnny brasscois like one of
my favorite movies and he plays a straight

[raj]: man

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and in this movie kind of a
straight man more detached and

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: i thought it was really good it
was a great choice

[shishir]: there's

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: a couple of theories i want to
tell you later in the podcast but but

[shishir]: yeah i mean

[raj]: oh we should definitely talk about the
ending maybe halfway through we get to this

[raj]: pot because

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: we can talk a lot about the
ending yeah

[shishir]: yeah definitely

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: i just the the other thing that

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: i found so just beautiful

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: about the movie was the sound

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: it's just

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: you know some scenes you don't have
any background music

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: and the the different different objects that
make sounds

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: specifically like books or what not just
rustling of of leaves or or you know

[shishir]: something moving on the floor like you
know like for example the bookshop just everything

[shishir]: was just done

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: so well and even just the regular
music that they use throughout

[raj]: the score

[shishir]: was very like just good

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: i love that the selections that they
did with the kind of the different instruments

[raj]: you talked about the sound like the
pages roughly that's a very polansky thing i

[raj]: think and

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: he does a great job and the
score i even noted it like i love

[raj]: the

[shishir]: m

[raj]: score yeah

[shishir]: before this movie actually i didn't really
think much about books

[raj]: yes

[shishir]: in terms of like

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: you know just stuff that you study
from like

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: school or things that you like you
know fiction fantasy book that you read after

[shishir]: watching

[raj]: h

[shishir]: this i was like wow there's like
i looked this up a bit there's a

[shishir]: pretty large secondary market on on

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: rare books and things that people like
collecting

[raj]: yeah oh

[shishir]: i think one of the one

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: of the earlier editions of the bible
for example is goes for a huge

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: amount of money just because that's you
know there's not many copies of that available

[shishir]: but i'm one of the because i
was cited in the in the movie that

[shishir]: donquiote um that

[raj]: yep

[shishir]: that as i looked that up there's
not

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: many copies where they're in good condition

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: around that same same year same time
that they were talking

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: about in the movie so i was

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like wow i just found it very
fascinating ly i m having new found appreciation

[raj]: kay

[shishir]: for

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: for like rare books because it's it's
just another it's a it is kind of

[shishir]: a work of art to the sense

[raj]: i

[shishir]: right like you have at that during
that period of time there's a specific type

[shishir]: of paper that was used and it's
just like the type of ink that used

[shishir]: for the print and all this stuff
just very cool overall

[raj]: m

[shishir]: on

[raj]: yeah and it was a different time
back then i mean we don't you don't

[raj]: have the manufacturing capabilities that you do
have now

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and so being able to make a
book for hard cover was a lot

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: of work and effort

[shishir]: lot of

[raj]: you

[shishir]: work

[raj]: know

[shishir]: out

[raj]: you didn't have all the machines that
we have now

[shishir]: yeah i just

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: very

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: type of subject or topic you know
there's a lot

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: of movies that are about you know
the lucifer devil or whatever and what not

[shishir]: and you know they tend to be
more action or even

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: to you know like but this is
more like a game of the mind so

[shishir]: so speak and i was very fascinated
by this kind of mystery thriller

[raj]: yeah you know it usually and i'm
trying you know my movie knowledge movies with

[raj]: the devil or it's not extensive but
i come back to maybe you can help

[raj]: me with the name of the movie
the one with patino cana reeves

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: um

[shishir]: when is the

[raj]: constantine or

[shishir]: c

[raj]: no

[shishir]: was at that kenerives did do which
didn't include the devil but this one was

[shishir]: a devil's advocate

[raj]: devil's advocate which i enjoyed and

[shishir]: still

[raj]: i think alpathino is the devil and
so you do see that and there is

[raj]: that kind of like scene where he
shows great power

[shishir]: yep yep

[raj]: and there's other movies i think that's
where like how the devil shows up but

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: this movie very

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: much kind of like rosemary's baby where

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: the devil is kind of in the
background i think rosemary baby the baby is

[raj]: the devil and in this movie we'll
get into the theories a little bit later

[raj]: on but it's just it's not really
showing its power there's no like there's

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: a chase scene here and there but
it's not with the devil

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: m

[shishir]: fascinating

[raj]: eh

[shishir]: you know the i think this is
probably one of my favorite movies just in

[shishir]: that type of that that subject matter
so to speak and you know you could

[shishir]: you could technically just replace lucifer with
just some any any supernatural undertate but

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: the thing i liked

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: about this was you know it wasn't

[raj]: yeah oh

[shishir]: really in my opinion like a religious

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: story it was more just that there
is a supernatural

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: character that is associated with like

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: know the negative side of

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: humanity so to speak where it has
more negative types of characteristics but not

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: like it

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: it is ultimately the humans that do
the bad stuff if you

[raj]: he

[shishir]: if you really see the think about
it like

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: in the story franklin jealous character boris
you know vulcan

[raj]: balkan

[shishir]: he

[raj]: yep

[shishir]: m it's not like he's under the
influence of lucifer and he's pretty much just

[shishir]: a fanatic phenomenal

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: phenol performance

[raj]: so good

[shishir]: yeah and then even

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: telfer liana telfer she's

[raj]: yep

[shishir]: just also

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like an extremist who is just completely
upset with this whole thing if you think

[raj]: she's

[shishir]: about

[raj]: like

[shishir]: it

[raj]: psychotic

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and where she's more kind of like

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: a heated ist

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: where she's wanting to have a good
time she's there's probably a lot of sex

[raj]: involved she just loves that where the
ball balkan bors balkan

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: he wants the power he also wants
probably what's t

[raj]: he wants to maybe live forever and

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: have you now be able to have
that kind of power god like devil like

[raj]: power

[shishir]: being mortal yeah

[raj]: immortal that's it that was the word
i was looking for

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: and

[shishir]: yeah the humans end up doing more
damage like

[raj]: my

[shishir]: the girl the mysterious girl right

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: who's kind of falling course around i
don't think she really i don't recall her

[shishir]: killing anybody um she protects corso um
and she has like these like you know

[shishir]: she's gifted with some kind of power
so you could assume that she's you know

[shishir]: she's she's either one of the lucifers
you know servants or like somebody

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: that's like just a you know some
kind of entity but that has some sort

[shishir]: of power but

[raj]: she does not really she doesn't kill
anybody and the only time we see her

[raj]: kind of like get into a fight
is when what when lianas partner or

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: body guard or henchman uh comes and
chases corso around

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and she uses justin s

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: to get to create some space and
i think she holds back because we see

[raj]: it we see her i think fly
or glide in the air like twice

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: um

[shishir]: to

[raj]: corso does not

[shishir]: yeah yeah

[raj]: and i don't even know of course
so she's like the roundhouse kick

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: that happens

[shishir]: m

[raj]: um he may suspect that you know
there is something he did but she purposely

[raj]: stays behind during that chase when they

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: climb up the steps and all that
so

[shishir]: y yeah exactly i mean most of
the movies that i

[raj]: okay

[shishir]: see any of these demons that are
like enchmen of the devil or whatever a

[shishir]: lot of them they just do very
evil deeds right there very they're very

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: clearly either they have no issues terms
of killing or doing other bad types of

[shishir]: act in this case it was pretty
much just that she was protecting really much

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: more about protection and not doing anything
that would take another person's life and so

[raj]: and also kind of like guiding corso

[shishir]: exactly yep

[raj]: because i wud say maybe about i
wasn't sold on it but i would say

[raj]: about twenty five twenty five or forty
percent of way through the movie i was

[raj]: saying she could be working for balkan

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: or she could be working for someone
else

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: but half way through i was like
okay it might be i'm not sure if

[raj]: she's working for balkan anymore but

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: like she guides him like she tells
him when is it fargus the second the

[raj]: guy that owned the second copy or
that

[shishir]: m

[raj]: he she tells course and i was
like hey you need to go there

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: even points out and he's like drowned

[shishir]: yep yep that's

[raj]: um

[shishir]: right

[raj]: and so she's like kind of like
getting him point him at the right track

[raj]: path and uh she even stops corso
from saving leon is what life

[shishir]: yeah yeah that's right you're right i
remember that yeah that scene was vulcan uh

[shishir]: yeah was joking and she told them
do don't do it your life will be

[shishir]: your life will be over as well
i think she was saying basically that he

[shishir]: would get killed

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: if you if he did that at
that moment yeah

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: it's that's that's exactly it

[raj]: well when we get to the ending
i have so i have another theory on

[raj]: why she saved him um but i
love the line when she was like hey

[raj]: balking just killed her and wide open
in front of everybody you're off the hook

[raj]: and i was thinking that though the
whole movie i was like he wait a

[raj]: minute coops don't really exist in this
universe and course as walked away from every

[raj]: murder scene

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: even though we know we didn't do
because we saw him not doing it usually

[raj]: walked when someone but like he's there
the fingerprints are if there's any witnesses he's

[raj]: the last person leaving the room

[shishir]: yeah that's right

[raj]: he

[shishir]: it's yeah

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: that's the other aspect of

[raj]: and i kind of like movies like
that i mean i'm not saying this movies

[raj]: anything like a tarantia movie but tarntino
has this universe

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: in that universe usually doesn't involve cops

[shishir]: right right

[raj]: and this universe has no cops

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: that's a good point i wouldn't

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: even know what cops would be able
to do outside of

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: yeah i

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: mean the

[raj]: it would be a distraction i mean
there have been movies where let's say in

[raj]: this case course is not really like
a good guy he's detached

[shishir]: ye

[raj]: and to the point where like i
wanted to know what happened next but i

[raj]: wasn't like overtly concerned of what happened
to course

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and if you didn't have dimthine in
the movie ave been like it's the movie

[raj]: that's the choice they made i would
be like oh no

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: but a lot of times like they
will let say have another another like a

[raj]: side character like a detective

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: and a detective would be kind of
a good guy and your detective is kind

[raj]: of like you're moral conscious and you're
kind of also get a point of view

[raj]: from his view and they didn't have
that

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and i think that was a good
choice not to have that yeah

[shishir]: kept the story focused that's

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: true

[raj]: nd there's not a whole lot of
like characters in the movie i also like

[raj]: i'm always kind of like

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: it may sometimes like if it's one
thing if it's like a movie based on

[raj]: a play of one room act you
know i can understyouknow

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: but this is like this is happening
in the city of paris you know

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: and in portugal uh

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: i don't know if it's paris but
they're in paris right part

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: parts of it yeah spain

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: and so yeah you just don't have
a whole lot of speaking parts

[shishir]: yeah it was very very tightly ely
woven like good number of characters story i

[shishir]: love each of the people that that
were introduced that owned the books the ninth

[shishir]: gate books

[raj]: same here

[shishir]: and it was just it was kind
of cool because you're like oh this is

[shishir]: the collector

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: and the way they talk about how
passionate they

[raj]: m

[shishir]: are it's just that's

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: when i was like you know i
was like you know what i actually want

[shishir]: to start collecting our books

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: now because i was like this is
pretty cool like i didn't realize this is

[shishir]: actually like a it's like coin collecting
or you know some people have different hobbies

[shishir]: like stamp collecting or like some you
know collect old old whiskeys from various countries

[shishir]: and things like that but this is
like another you know another category of collectors

[raj]: and they're all different like

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: bulk in you know he's got he's
got his books in a penthouse under through

[raj]: like a door that's that's pin protected

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: um

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: and then you have vargus who's got
a country home and his books are just

[raj]: laying

[shishir]: a

[raj]: on the floor and he

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: even mentioned it you just like excuse
the way i have it but this is

[raj]: what i got but i clean them
and maintain them every day

[shishir]: yeah i know

[raj]: and then and then you had gesler

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and she's more academic

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: with an office with a secretary probably
has like a side job maybe teaches at

[raj]: a university you know

[shishir]: yes each each unique kind of personalities
each individually interesting

[raj]: yeh

[shishir]: you know throughout the movies through

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: the cross of the movie i was
actually when fargus was

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: and then when kester was killed i
actually thought that it was initially i thought

[shishir]: it was the girl the mysterious girl
that was doing it because i was like

[shishir]: oh she has like the she has
like this kind of extraordinary power extern abilities

[shishir]: and she doesn't seem you know you
just automatically i think there's a bias because

[shishir]: at least for me when i

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: saw any movie that involved this concept
of lucifer the

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: devil i just thought they're automatically like
the ones that caused the mahamad stuff right

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: which is the nice thing about this
movie where

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: it's really not like

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like those kind of biases

[raj]: yes

[shishir]: are i think what poleski probably fed
into

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: and used you know to surprise the
audience in a sense because enid not being

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: then the serious girl that did

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: those murders

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: and and in a way it also
like kind of it made the story more

[shishir]: interesting beaus then you it's sort of
you start out and it's like universe of

[shishir]: like you know like like let's say
ten leven different characters is right airing it

[shishir]: down to like the final kind of
like main players of this you know end

[shishir]: game you know to get into the
get into the ninth gate and then it

[shishir]: really tightened up to see who the
main kind of adversaries were in a sense

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: and yeah i just i love the

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: locations that they did the

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: i don't know if you noticed this
but

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: there's a painting that kan hasan is
a is a library

[raj]: yeah yeah

[shishir]: where that's that that location is the
location

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: of the ninth gate um and it's
it's a chateau i think in paris somewhere

[shishir]: but i looked that up and i
was like it's a real place and

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: leskiwasscouting locations and he really liked that
is the location

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: for

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: for the for the final you puzzle
location of that

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: so

[raj]: okay

[shishir]: i was very fascinating

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: asplex of the movie did you did
you have a particular like favorite scene

[raj]: yeah i mean i have quite a
few let's talk about some favorite scenes and

[raj]: then we should definitely talk about the
ending

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: so i like every scene with balkan
with franklin

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: he's great in this movie

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: he has this kind of like presence
around him he's tall really tall there's this

[raj]: great scene or it's kind of no
nothing scene but when he walks into i

[raj]: think into the elevator or not the
elevator but maybe it's to the collection of

[raj]: where his books are

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: i thought he would have to hunch
down because his head

[shishir]: a

[raj]: is like that close

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: from the top so he's a tall
imposing figure and it shows in the movie

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: and so i love just every scene
with him i even

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: like the scenes where you see you
don't even see him he's off screen and

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: of course i was talking to him
on the phone

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: and he always ends up like just
hanging up or leave and courses

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: like hello

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: or answer question it would be just
like dead

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: air

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: i also liked going to back to
the begining of the movie i also like

[raj]: the owner of the rare book shop
burney ornstein played by james

[shishir]: s

[raj]: russo um he's got it great face

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and that's what i really think you
know if you have a face like that

[raj]: you don't have to be a good
looking guy but he's a good looking guy

[raj]: but you got to have a great
face you would be a great character actor

[raj]: and

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: he's a great character actor

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and he's also great donne borasco another
movie with johnnie

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: dep

[shishir]: ye oh

[raj]: and then i also like how corso
is like smoking cigarettes everywhere

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: um

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: and i kept thinking i was like
you know it's a little half hazard smoking

[raj]: those cigarettes with those like while you're
handling or investigating those

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: very expensive and sometimes priceless rare books
oh

[shishir]: ye yes exactly

[raj]: you know it's like you ash and
you know the ash could be still on

[raj]: fire

[shishir]: yep definitely causes

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: damage and stuff like that for sure

[raj]: so and then i like the score
and then

[raj]: i like the ritual scene which we
can explain ittle bit more when we talk

[raj]: about the indian but i wasn't expecting
balkan to walk right in and when he

[raj]: walks right in it's

[shishir]: i

[raj]: just

[shishir]: know

[raj]: he just takes charge mumbo

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: jumbo mumbo jumbo

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and then i got one little scene
i got to mention that just thought was

[raj]: funny during the car chase

[shishir]: do

[raj]: um and when corse's car gets stuck
in the muddy water

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: he just gets out

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and he gets his stuff and he
just like and he

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: walks to the nearest kaffir establishment

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: nothing phases him

[shishir]: the phases phases that's like literally the
most even keel like you know guy

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: character i've ever seen in any any
like t v show movie ever

[raj]: same

[shishir]: like

[raj]: here and he doesn't

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: even try to get the car started
again

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: or

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: he doesn't try to push the car
he just it gets stuck

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: and i think that was done on
per if it was not of the script

[raj]: it was something that plant was like
we're going to leave it there it's funny

[raj]: and i'm

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: not sure how i would play in
a packed house but i thought i was

[raj]: hilarious

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: do you

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: have any favorite scenes

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: so i i mean just like you
like i love practically all the various scenes

[shishir]: uh you know with balkan i mean
he his like franklin jealous presence is to

[shishir]: me

[raj]: so good

[shishir]: just amazing like you just hear him
talking and you're like i was like his

[shishir]: voice is just the perfect voice for
radio or

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: whatever you just can't like you could
read a audio book and i would listen

[shishir]: to that for hours and hours

[raj]: same here

[shishir]: yeah so i love every scene for
me the one of the scenes that

[raj]: eh

[shishir]: keeps

[raj]: so

[shishir]: keep re

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: playing in my head and i just
like just love that scene i

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: could like actually watch it is when
corso visits the the book store the what

[shishir]: the book the

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: those italian italian brothers

[raj]: yep

[shishir]: it's i don't

[raj]: the

[shishir]: know if

[raj]: sinse

[shishir]: you

[raj]: brothers

[shishir]: yes yes they are so i don't
know if you notice this but it's not

[shishir]: played by two actors its one single
actor that does both those roles right and

[shishir]: there so like that at those characters
are so funny the actor that plays the

[shishir]: brothers the same act basic brothers

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: is just phenomenal

[raj]: o

[shishir]: actor i think where did

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: he yah i think plank found him
discovered something else but yeah the actor's name

[shishir]: is pose lopez roder

[raj]: ah yeah

[shishir]: but

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: i watched that scene on hearing talk
about like books

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: and just

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like the way they were talking with
corso very fascinating conversation

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: i was like this is like just
like a very like you know kind of

[shishir]: secretive

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: or very

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: like very knowledgeable accumulated knowledge very wise
people those characters and the way they were

[shishir]: talking to course so it was just
so fascinating the sounds in that entire scene

[shishir]: in the in the book store

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: just the way the the scenery looked
that environment just very beautiful

[raj]: yeh

[shishir]: over ike i just that's very memorable
scene to me and it was only that

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: that was the only time you you
see those brothers right um

[raj]: as

[shishir]: only for a couple of minutes but

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: then that was such a i don't
know why i just had a huge

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: have a huge impression on me

[raj]: well they're the only characters in the
movie with exception to maybe burney orange stein

[raj]: the

[shishir]: a

[raj]: owner of the rare book shop in
the beginning they kind of had like joy

[shishir]: exactly yes yes

[raj]: but no one else has got either
there detached or power hungry crazy or you

[raj]: know mysterious

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: but the brothers they were joyful

[shishir]: very yeah very joyful

[raj]: ye

[shishir]: they

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: they're normal and you know in a
sense like they just had uh you know

[shishir]: some kind of i guess connection

[raj]: as

[shishir]: to the world so to speak but
they should know uh obsession with the the

[shishir]: subject matter they were like well you
know a great opportunity presented itself for us

[shishir]: to sell this book

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: so sold it

[raj]: i was definitely thinking that like they
weren't they never gave like when he showed

[raj]: the book he learned you have the
nine gate like they were just like wait

[raj]: this is the book that we sold

[shishir]: yeah that's yea and

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: most all the other collectors they would
not sell their copy i think telferheyeah whatever

[shishir]: he told bors backin bors balkan was
telling course that he got it because he

[shishir]: he got he bought it from telford
before telford on himself

[raj]: yep

[shishir]: and i

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: i mean who knows why that ha
and i suspect that balkan idiot threatened him

[shishir]: or who knows what like somehow none
of those guys wanted to sell that copy

[shishir]: of their copy of the ninth

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: gate

[raj]: but

[shishir]: and

[raj]: telfer

[shishir]: so

[raj]: may have been the only one

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: maybe less interested in that book it
was in something that

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: we're not sure though because you know
what he he hangs himself which is actually

[raj]: a great opening scene

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: he just hangs himself and i actually
kind of like the way how the camera

[raj]: moves

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: so yeah we don't know much about
him

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: but we kind of get like a
little here and there like he wasn't interested

[raj]: in the ritual

[shishir]: yep yep exactly

[raj]: and it's

[shishir]: why

[raj]: we find out that his wife is

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: really more into the ritual and more
into the book

[shishir]: yep yep exactly she was the one
that was you're right because in the in

[shishir]: the one of the scenes

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: with the onnectin with he brothers the
brothers they said that

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: telfer's wife is the one that was
so one of them one of them mentioned

[shishir]: i think was it the camisa

[raj]: yes

[shishir]: brothers or one of the characters that
corso when he was oh no it was

[shishir]: fergus i think it was fergus who
said that telfer telfer's wife was the one

[shishir]: that wanted that book so he bought
it for her

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: so something definitely happened

[raj]: came

[shishir]: in that that relationship between husband and
wife where

[raj]: you know what i may be getting
a little weeds here but i thought and

[raj]: i'm not sure i'd have to watch
it again but i thought that telfer leanna

[raj]: had the book use the senias brother
to sell it to her husband so therefore

[raj]: she can get the money to buy
to keep the chateau which is kind of

[raj]: what kessler the third third owner of
the third book or the other

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: owner of the third copy i think
she mentioned that and she mentioned that um

[shishir]: a

[raj]: but she was the one part of
the ritual and she and the money to

[raj]: fund her chateau

[shishir]: m

[raj]: and if telfer found out he what
what liana was doing he would kill himself

[raj]: and

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: that's when corso goes funny that you
say that he killed himself

[shishir]: m

[raj]: last week

[shishir]: god that's actually you know i missed
that part of it yeah okay i think

[shishir]: that that explains explains a good good
good portion of that yeah i just remember

[raj]: a

[shishir]: that exchange when they were talking how
the telfer himself was not the one interested

[shishir]: in the book as more for his
wife remember that part of it but i

[shishir]: think this is actually a great point
that liana might have done something to try

[shishir]: to get to see if that chateau
that's fascinating actually

[raj]: it was like a throwaway line that
kester said but

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: it stuck out to me

[shishir]: that's

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: that's that's actually great great observation

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: i'm gonna have to

[raj]: a

[shishir]: i'm gonna watch that part

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: but that explains a lot then

[raj]: hey so you won't take about the
ending

[shishir]: yeah yeah

[raj]: yes

[shishir]: let's talk about the ending

[raj]: so when i saw the ending

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: and then m we find

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: out so corso okaylone is that at
first i was like when course when when

[raj]: balkan lights himself on fire

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: i actually liked it how he didn't
feel the pain at first

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: because he just so wanted it to
not

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: feel it and then you're like a
waitin started feeling the pain

[shishir]: ye

[raj]: and and of course so shoots vulcan
i was like well that's cold but going

[raj]: on line i was just reading a
little bit about it wanted to hear what

[raj]: other people had to say and they
were like oh he shot him to shoot

[raj]: him out of his misery was

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: like oh that makes sense

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and so he go s out and
then he runs into the girl i think

[raj]: or she's like and the girl um
m have sex

[shishir]: right

[raj]: and that's to me is a very
palanski thing i don't know if ou'vever seen

[raj]: bitter moon

[shishir]: and

[raj]: but

[shishir]: that way uh

[raj]: that's actually a funny

[shishir]: h

[raj]: movie dark comedy but i think he
has a lot of sex in his movies

[raj]: or

[shishir]: not

[raj]: and so but there's a reason why
he had it wasn't just to like oh

[raj]: let's just have a sex scene it
was you know one of the images in

[raj]: the book is showing her naked

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: and so then after he had sex
it's like you know he doesn't think anything

[raj]: of and he was like so what
this is just all fake and he wasn't

[raj]: i don't think he was convinced by
this like

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: he was probably more interested in why
are these people interested

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: but

[shishir]: right

[raj]: i don't

[shishir]: right

[raj]: think he like the night game

[shishir]: hm

[raj]: whatever

[shishir]: never never thought of meeting

[raj]: because he so

[shishir]: as

[raj]: i pays he just doesn't

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: even

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: and then that's when she says ah
well it didn't work as one was a

[raj]: forgery

[shishir]: yeah yeah

[raj]: and so like you mentioned when you
know we always see the sedisa's brothers once

[raj]: but i was thinking i wonder if
they're like the true culprite and it makes

[raj]: sense they're the most joy people maybe
they are the most evil but no no

[raj]: she just he just sends him back
there she just sends him back there to

[raj]: go find the missing the missing image
missing

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: page um so anyways

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: so when the ending happens you never
see him do the ritual you never see

[raj]: him do any spell but you know
he does because he goes back to the

[raj]: castle and you see the light now
it's

[shishir]: hm

[raj]: a special effect and he walks right
in and

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: when i was watching it and fade
to black and then the credits go and

[raj]: i was like so you know how
look on on on the t v you

[raj]: can find out how many minutes left
and

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: it was like three minutes left like

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: wait that's it

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: so i went to see like is
this like a marvel thing maybe there is

[raj]: some like after credit stuff but no

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: and i was conflicted and i did
say what

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: the question mark

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: but more i thought about it i
kind of liked it

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: and i kind of felt

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: one i don't think because course was
so detached i don't think he does served

[raj]: to be the hero or have a
happy ending and i think polanski knew that

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: uh and we don't get a sad
or violent ending

[shishir]: m

[raj]: and i think that cully makes the
movie better

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: so there's so many loose ends and
now there's gonna be a lot of thin

[raj]: pieces

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: what happened at the end and i
wanted to hear your thoughts about the din

[raj]: but then after your thought i wanted
to i wanted to talk about like so

[raj]: what do you think happens when he
walks

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: in through that

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and we don't know because you know

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: the movie just as

[shishir]: i love the fact that they didn't
show initially now i guess we're so used

[shishir]: to seeing

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: everything laid out right like it doesn't
really a lot more movies show like don't

[shishir]: leave as much room for imagination in
some sense and

[raj]: very

[shishir]: so

[raj]: few like no country for old men
like

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: that leaves a little

[shishir]: m

[raj]: like to doubt like you know

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: but

[shishir]: m

[raj]: same thing with this movie like we
don't know but most movies you know the

[raj]: indian they

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: give you the ending and i

[shishir]: very

[raj]: think most people want the ending

[shishir]: exactly even christopher nolan actually does this

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: pretty decently i think in

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: some of his movies i know he
did that with inception he did that

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: with the ment to some degree um
but yeah it's not not the common i

[shishir]: think it's sort of a probably an
audience testing thing and studios then step in

[shishir]: and say no this ending is to

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: to vague we need to have more
clear kind of finality so that is satisfying

[shishir]: that's probably like a

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: like more of a studio

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: type of you know type

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: of motivation but

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: but i love the way this ending
was because it's like the whole point of

[shishir]: the movie was this adventure learning about
what the nine different

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: gates what

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: they are not the gates but the
nine different kind of puzzles

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: what they actually mean going through them

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: and and executing them and then at
the end you know what happens

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: he gets admitted into this kind of
supernatural

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: uh realm so to speak

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: and i you know

[raj]: did

[shishir]: the thing

[raj]: you

[shishir]: that

[raj]: like that though did you like how
that ending wet

[shishir]: i was like

[raj]: m

[shishir]: just seeing the ending when he's going
walking i was so glad that they just

[shishir]: showed him only walking in and then
they then they went to the credits because

[shishir]: it's

[raj]: do

[shishir]: like

[raj]: you think

[shishir]: you

[raj]: it would have been better if they
showed the ritual or not needed

[shishir]: i don't you know so

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: my thought about the ritual was this
like

[raj]: eh

[shishir]: so okay balkan obviously was basing it
off the fake manuscript or the fake

[raj]: ye

[shishir]: fake puzzle but

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: technically speaking he didn't have to set
himself on fire he

[raj]: he

[shishir]: just did that because course kind of
like

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: sort of go to him he just
said oh well if you're immortal now then

[shishir]: you can set yourself so you can
put fire

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: on you and you won't

[raj]: was that what he said

[shishir]: yeah yeah basically

[raj]: oh wow missed that

[shishir]: yeah so like vulcan was never meant
like that that supposed ritual was never meant

[shishir]: for him to set himself

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: on fire he he all he did
was like he read at some inscriptions on

[shishir]: that that ninth

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: supposed the final final puzzle and then
like he you know just threw some stuff

[shishir]: down the floor and that's it right

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: but that was that was he also
didn't

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: one of the puzzles what is was
to sleep with that i think they defined

[shishir]: that character the mysterious girl character as
like the consort of the devil or something

[shishir]: like that like lucifer sort i

[raj]: right

[shishir]: can't remember exactly but that was one
of the

[raj]: i have a theory about that but
go ahead

[shishir]: ah that was we of the acts
that was supposed to

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: happen that was part of the the
the the process right and so so balkan

[shishir]: didn't do that so that but that
that act corso did do that right

[raj]: and

[shishir]: so

[raj]: that's

[shishir]: i

[raj]: because balkan didn't have that image right
or

[shishir]: in

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: exactly and so

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: he didn't have that image neither did
corso but the girl like you know she

[shishir]: had seen corso go through all those

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like eight different puzzles and basic

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: he survived um then

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: the ninth one they

[raj]: he

[shishir]: you know

[raj]: passed the test

[shishir]: exactly pssitest

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: they do their thing in the ninth
one and then that's it right but now

[shishir]: it's like okay where does he go
right and so

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: then she tells him you know if
you still want to go you have

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: the choice this the actual final step
is you know the puzzle is at you

[shishir]: know

[raj]: m

[shishir]: the brother's shop or whatever right

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: she tells them where to go get
it and uh

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: so yeah actually he finds it and
then he just

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: goes to that location uh that's it
but

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: we know one thing i noticed about
this whole process was that um

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: m it was

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: it was kind of ride like there's
nobody else that could have entered the ninth

[shishir]: gate except for course

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: which to me meant that there's something
about him that

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: he's somehow like connected to that no
lucifer character in some way in my opinion

[shishir]: umanandyou know there's some people that have
talked about this a bit terms of theories

[shishir]: but

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: you know it's a little

[raj]: m

[shishir]: bit hard to you know lensky

[raj]: right

[shishir]: doesn't talk about this stuff really that
much so

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: is based on a it's a loose
adaptation of a book that

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: polenski actually read but

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: this is like far

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: more i think creative than some was
and

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: you know a lot more o

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: more imaginative fictional stuff that he adds
to this movie but you know some

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: some individuals

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: actually theorized that courses character is related
to lucifer

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like lucifer's son so to speak and

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: you know so i actually found that
more interesting and more believable because he does

[shishir]: not actually come

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: off as human if you think about
it like

[raj]: yep

[shishir]: he s no interest

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: in anything in the world you know
it's it's it's kind of like for him

[shishir]: none of it matters

[raj]: ye

[shishir]: right it's just he's just there and
he doesn't like

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: people in general like he just you
know earns

[raj]: or anything

[shishir]: or anything yeah really anything

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: i mean there's no like love that

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: shown in is like you know living
nature or what not in his

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: personality so things that you know kind
of show human like a very core aspect

[shishir]: of humanity it's not that he's evil
that's the other thing i just think that

[shishir]: the a

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: character he is is much

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: like significantly different from any of the
other characters we see other characters really show

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: some level emotion they're very human so
that's why i got i got the impression

[shishir]: we throughout the movie let was not
really a human

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: and

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: that in that sense that he's

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: able to you know access this particular
portal so to speak where others couldn't you

[shishir]: know there's no way i feel like

[raj]: i

[shishir]: bulkin

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: buckin was one of the most knowledgeable
guys like he's the one that started this

[shishir]: whole you know goose chase finding

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: the different the different books and then

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: figuring out what is authentic and what
is not like that was all his

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: own idea like he had spent decades

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: on this right so i actually love
the i love the ending because it

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: brought up a lot of questions in
my mind like trying to

[raj]: right

[shishir]: figure out why why corso like

[raj]: ye

[shishir]: was it was it something that anybody
else could have done like that could have

[shishir]: access to ninth gate and i just
i don't see it because one the one

[shishir]: mysterious

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: that mysterious girl figure who has supernatural

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: ability she was not not guiding anyone
else she only had an

[raj]: a

[shishir]: interest in corso so

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: from that from that moment i was
like there's

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: something about him that shows you know
showcases

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like you know connection and it's not
like

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: it's not just that he's working for
balkan to find the books you know

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: i'm sure balkan actually like tried you
know looking looking up this information with

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: probably a bunch of other people and
then decided okay corso is like one of

[shishir]: the more

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: effective

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: ones but technically speaking that the mysterious
girl could have approached balkan cause balkan

[raj]: yep

[shishir]: was very interested you know why not
like so she she picked she basically picked

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: the person that

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: would get access to the ninth game
and

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: to me that means my my mind
at least it was because there's something something

[shishir]: else that was inherently where he could
he could he was a kind of the

[shishir]: chosen one so

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: to speak but yeah i just

[raj]: thank

[shishir]: absolutely love that the way they did
that because i'm like wow okay this is

[shishir]: this is real this is actually a
real thing that's

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: the other thing like this is not
it wasn't like oh okay there's a

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: goose chase like you know all the
different puzzles at the end it so

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: you know that's

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: it it was it was a real
ninth gate

[raj]: there is one sea where

[shishir]: eh

[raj]: corso does show a little bit um
is when liana is like henchman or partner

[raj]: now has the gun and lean says
take them downstairs don't do it here too

[raj]: much of a scene and

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: when they go downstairs

[raj]: it's not the girl but it's corso
doing that move

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: uh hitting him throwing him down the
stairs you know

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and then think killing him with

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: the gun or the or the boot
or something and some sort of clarin him

[raj]: in the head and i remember when
he was i was just like well this

[raj]: seems like a little bit out of
character

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: and the girl noticed it too but
she smiles

[shishir]: yeh

[raj]: and a

[shishir]: yeh

[raj]: smile gets wider and wider and then
she even says like i didn't know you

[raj]: had it in you

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: she never tried to stop it where

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: she ends up stopping him later when
he tries to save liana

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: you know and so my theory is
and i can go either way that the

[raj]: girl is a subordinate worker for the
devil or the

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: devil him and herself in a

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: form of a human

[shishir]: yeah yeah yeah

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: that's that's a good one too

[raj]: and she picked corso

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: now i didn't think of that like
only corso could do the ninth gate my

[raj]: thinking was that ninth gate was obviously
real from the end of the movie but

[raj]: the ritual is real too if they
were all real and she was going to

[raj]: make sure that the right person did
it

[shishir]: yeah yeah

[raj]: and now but it got me now
here we're going to like what happens after

[raj]: he passes the gate

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and so i doubt corso

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: i think

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: he will then get absorbed and now
be the evil person on earth for the

[raj]: devil to do his bidding

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: whether it's just like outright evilness or
be more of a con man setting people

[raj]: up to fail or whatever and got
me thinking is like i doubt course would

[raj]: win

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: because i doubt he's ever going to
double cross or out smart this devil and

[raj]: so we're kind of luke to our
imagination what happens next and it got me

[raj]: thinking like so of course it was
not going to be like an arnold swartnger

[raj]: and beat the devil

[shishir]: red red

[raj]: not going to happen

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: for preswallish or whatever um and so
but it got me to think that you

[raj]: know for a way that course ho
to beat the devil by walking through the

[raj]: gate um would we get to get
the power of community get that evilness but

[raj]: just not care enough to use it

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: ay

[shishir]: yeah that's right

[raj]: and and just make the devil frustrated

[shishir]: that's

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: a very very good like we actually
ye

[raj]: because it's like okay so you chose
the right person because you can mould he

[raj]: maybe you

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: know bulkin might have his own ideas
the guy who as already

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: you

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: know like you know he might be
more trouble than it's worth for the devil

[shishir]: yeah he was power

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: hungry and he wanted he wanted that
for a specific reason he just wanted

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: to basically accumulate

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: infinite power in some sense

[raj]: and lena

[shishir]: an

[raj]: she's a hedonist i mean

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: she's

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: she and kessler and fargus they're just
real life book collectors they're not

[shishir]: ah yeah

[raj]: they're they're very inter did in the
devil um

[shishir]: the pademic

[raj]: m

[shishir]: perspective

[raj]: yeah more from an academic perspective but
i don't think they wish even though they

[raj]: may not even themselves believe in the
night game

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: you know

[shishir]: exactly yeah

[raj]: or for them it's more of an
academic thing it has like analogies to real

[raj]: life

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: where balking he knows the night gate
is real or

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: at the very least he has a
high he really does believe there's a high

[raj]: chance of it being real and i'm
going to find out

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: i went in and he says it

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: in the ritual is like none of
you guys deserve this book

[shishir]: yep yep

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: he thinks they're more like

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: fake

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: you know fake fans so to speak

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: versus

[raj]: and they are they are

[shishir]: and if they actually are is actually
kind

[raj]: but

[shishir]: of

[raj]: nothing

[shishir]: funny

[raj]: wrong with that though but he

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: like he truly hates them though

[shishir]: he spent like how many decades like
learning about this stuff

[raj]: yah

[shishir]: and actually taking it seriously yeah i
mean at the end of the day

[raj]: yah

[shishir]: it's what is that was

[raj]: ye

[shishir]: purpose the use of attaining this power
that these guys want at one and for

[raj]: okay

[shishir]: it's pretty clear with balkan once before
and the one person that doesn't really care

[shishir]: about it is

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: so like he's just like whatever i'm
sure if he's like now that he's in

[shishir]: the ninth gate

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: and he's got powers he's probably like
well

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: you know i don't really have anything
to do with them i don't i don't

[shishir]: have any

[raj]: exactly

[shishir]: design

[raj]: and

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: you know he didn't go in there
to get the power

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: balkan wanted he went in there as
like well now i got this thing and

[raj]: now i want to know

[shishir]: i want

[raj]: you

[shishir]: to

[raj]: know

[shishir]: know ye

[raj]: and he's probably also thinking it's like
well what is my life here worth

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: anything i don't

[shishir]: right

[raj]: have anybody to care for and no
one cares for me

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and my one kind of maybe maybe
maybe maybe friend bertie old steam he's dead

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: m

[shishir]: that one friend of his you know
the i mean the goal at least in

[shishir]: some of these stories that you see
with us for is that

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: is to influence humans to send more
to like you know be

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: basically like get more at the end
of the day it's like he that that

[shishir]: character that supernatural character wants more devotion
from the larger following and more worship to

[shishir]: him versus people worshiping

[raj]: a

[shishir]: god and

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: i'm assuming that's because he drives like
more power from

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: that in some sense

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: but in this in this story

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: it wasn't really about that like you
didn't

[raj]: no

[shishir]: you didn't really hear like oh this
is the goal for just

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: that there is a there is a
supposed

[raj]: is it

[shishir]: supernatural character and people want

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: to you know being closer to that
or some

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: people at least a segment of that
the society

[raj]: i

[shishir]: and that

[raj]: m

[shishir]: in that movie you want to be
closer to that some in a more fictional

[shishir]: way than others

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like balkan who's doing research and then

[raj]: m

[shishir]: it being

[raj]: yah

[shishir]: real is actually kind of fascinating to
me in the movie universe let um because

[shishir]: i mean this is the great thing
about the movie ending where it did because

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: it's not like it could be that
it's just another dimension to some alien cat

[shishir]: you know that has like powers that
you know regular human can't really fathom

[raj]: ye

[shishir]: right versus

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: you know versus like a

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like a like a christian christian type
of antagonist

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: as like all these abilities and supernatural
powers too so it's kind of i mean

[shishir]: i think it's

[raj]: a

[shishir]: open to a lot of different

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: ways to interpret what is it that's
on the other side of

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: the poor of so to speak but

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: i just i actually loved that way
they went through

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: this kind of set of puzzles get
to ending

[raj]: same here and you know you were
mentioning it earlier and i'm glad you brought

[raj]: up like no explanation of the devil
and they don't even mention god at least

[raj]: i don't think so so there's no

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: scene with like a father or a
priest um

[shishir]: nothing

[raj]: nothing like that whether it's christian or
jewish and then m so you get no

[raj]: explanation

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: who the devil is and you don't
really need a whole lot and it doesn't

[raj]: matter what religion you are or even
you're an atheist or agnostic the devil is

[raj]: no like

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: people just you know it's in pop
culture so there's an assumption there and if

[raj]: i was found kind of like the
depnead i don't my knowledge in christianity or

[raj]: judaism is very low

[shishir]: same

[raj]: and

[shishir]: here

[raj]: but i've always found the devil interesting
because it's like i don't really see him

[raj]: as a person that's like fighting god
you know it's not like

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: um like those marvel character like super
man and lex luther you know

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: hero and villain you know or dr
octopus and spider man hero or green

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: goblin or like it

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: it's like i've always kind of like
my thought was like the devil works for

[raj]: god

[shishir]: right

[raj]: and the devil

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: has a purpose

[shishir]: as i prepare

[raj]: and if you best not you're going
to health

[shishir]: that's

[raj]: that's kind

[shishir]: him

[raj]: of my always thoughts like the like
god is kind of like the creator and

[raj]: he created the devil

[shishir]: yeah that's that's essentially essential at what
the

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: the kind of the core of dynamic
is right

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: one other kind of depiction of that
care or the lucifer character that i actually

[shishir]: think is done pretty well in an
interesting way is in the t

[raj]: sure

[shishir]: v show called the sandman um

[raj]: i've heard of it i haven't seen
it now though right

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: and

[shishir]: it's

[raj]: paced

[shishir]: new

[raj]: off a comic comic

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: book

[shishir]: it's based off of a d

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: c a graphic novel

[raj]: yeah okay so is

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: it h p

[shishir]: it's on neflixnetflix

[raj]: it's on the flex and it's d

[shishir]: oh

[raj]: c huh

[shishir]: yeah so d c

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: it was done by this author named
nil gamin

[raj]: oh i've heard i know neal game
and yeah he's a a popular

[shishir]: m

[raj]: science fiction writer he's

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: also

[shishir]: yep

[raj]: written some children's books too

[shishir]: exactly wide variety of different literature but
this one yeah

[raj]: yes

[shishir]: i mean the story is actually centered
on the lord of dreams so this one

[shishir]: character was the dream king so

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: to speak it's just very fascinating but
lucifer is one of the characters and is

[shishir]: a very

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: powerful character in terms of the abilities
but there's no mystery

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: right because you see that

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: character and so somewhat what i loved
about

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: ninth gate specifically was that you didn't
really have to believe in anything

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: just you know as for part of
your background you go in and you watch

[shishir]: they're like this

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: is very like trippy it feels

[raj]: yes

[shishir]: real that's the other thing like it
really it feels like a real thing

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: it was just like oh does this
book exist that's one of the questions in

[shishir]: my mind like does this actual

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: is this based on a real like
book or something was out there you know

[shishir]: for whatever reason and

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: i started researching that a bit because
i was

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like you know is there something like
inspired this this movie

[raj]: okay

[shishir]: there's not really anything that's

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: like you know that famous it's it's
uh i think there's like people that are

[shishir]: like god

[raj]: ye

[shishir]: i that have some like some odd

[raj]: uh

[shishir]: types of novels

[raj]: uh

[shishir]: that

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: have been ritten but nothing like as
fascinating as this

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: so it's a wonderful wonderful

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: movie magic that poleski brought to the
screen because i was

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like wow this this has to be
real you know it's very rare to think

[shishir]: of something completely like novel from imagination

[raj]: yes

[shishir]: like usually rooted in a lot of
things that have

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: occurred in reality so

[raj]: yeah even the craziest stories out there
that kind of base

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: a little bit on reality

[shishir]: exactly so

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: that's the other other aspect

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: that i loved you know

[raj]: oh oh

[shishir]: now for me reading reading a book
and getting in versed in a book it

[shishir]: happens when it happens not that often

[raj]: my

[shishir]: when it does happen i actually feel
like i'm in that world and like this

[shishir]: is like a real thing and the
same thing with this movie but that was

[shishir]: one of the other

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: effects that i loved about it just
way the story unfolded it was very ah

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: i felt very real and you're like

[raj]: ye

[shishir]: okay the subject there's no like you
know special effects like huge like you know

[shishir]: like types of

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: action scenes you're just like this is
very

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: much like people talking to each other
that you know like normally happens in real

[shishir]: life and made it so fascinating that's
the other thing i loved about it

[raj]: yeah yeah you know

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: i don't really have much to add
when almost gate over an hour i did

[raj]: want to talk a little bout the
flaws and you now it's it's oddly enough

[raj]: like when i talk about when we
talk about like really movies i'm kind of

[raj]: nip picking the flaws and there are
some flaws in this movie but you know

[raj]: my thinking was like if you get
hung up with the flaws

[shishir]: m

[raj]: um then you're not going to like
the movie

[shishir]: uh

[raj]: and i thought

[shishir]: huh

[raj]: this movie you just you can't get
hung up on it

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: the special effects you know i've never
criticized that special effect but i thought they

[raj]: were okay

[shishir]: m

[raj]: you know they couldn't avoid the green
screen

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: on the driving scenes in new york
because palansky can't be in the us for

[raj]: legal reasons which you know i won't

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: get into in this in this pot
but

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: you could obviously tell and my only

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: thing is i heard this on a
tarantinopod where he talked

[shishir]: a

[raj]: about him because he used his screen
screen in

[raj]: put fiction and i think he also
uses him an kill bill so in pulp

[shishir]: really

[raj]: fiction when you see john travolta driving
with uma

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: it's a black and white in the
back and he says that he wanted to

[raj]: use it but he didn't want to
use it kind of like he didn't use

[raj]: this an example but like how you
see older movies or even plants ke using

[raj]: it they're just trying to make it
look real

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: he he was going to use it
and make it on purpose

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: to not look real

[shishir]: okay okay

[raj]: and so in fiction from what i
remember more more so than kill bill

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: is travoltis in color the car is

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: in color but the green screen the
image in the back is in black and

[raj]: white

[shishir]: oh yes

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: yes yes yes okay i remember that

[raj]: and it's just like even a non
casual you are non movie buff we notice

[raj]: that and get a

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: chuckle out of it

[shishir]: to

[raj]: and so you know that was my
like one kind of little flaw there you

[raj]: know i think with this movie like
this it's like you kind of just have

[raj]: to kind of accept it of what
it's

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: there

[shishir]: yeah i mean there were some flies
too for for example when the crane almost

[shishir]: fell on and that was one of
the

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: one of the puzzles where you have
to avoid danger that will ill come to

[shishir]: you if you get too close to
attaining your goal right so it actually was

[shishir]: like when you watch it the way
that scene happens like there's enough time

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: for him you avoid getting hit by
that crane and i was like wait this

[shishir]: doesn't seem that dangerous it's like

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: too slow in terms of falling down
and like you know he didn't narrowly miss

[shishir]: it in my

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: and else

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: the after it had

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: felt fallen down it didn't really seem
like it was going to hurt anybody that

[shishir]: badly

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: like it

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: wasn't like a huge like heavy like
you know

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: something that could you know type of
object that could really cause cause damnnatputs

[raj]: a

[shishir]: you know i think that's that's just
it's a minor flaw like that's something that

[shishir]: has improved a lot over the over
the

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: last few years where people really have
kind of gotten the science down of like

[shishir]: like getting the scene to synematically unfold

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: in just enough time to feel

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: like that person is narrowly

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: missing getting injured badly

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: you know

[raj]: yeah and

[shishir]: so

[raj]: usually you have a guy on the
production staff that's like dedicated to like okay

[raj]: this is when he should run this
is

[shishir]: yes

[raj]: how it's going to look

[shishir]: ah

[raj]: i give a little pat because planche's
not an action director

[shishir]: exactly

[raj]: and now he he has to make
his movies in foreign countries and sometimes he

[raj]: has trouble getting financing so he's got
to make do with what he's got

[shishir]: exactly and then that's the thing like

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: to me it didn't bother me i
was like okay like

[raj]: right

[shishir]: i get that that's

[raj]: he

[shishir]: that's not so believable but it never
like detracted

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: from like larger story and i was
like you know this is it's still because

[shishir]: it's such a quick scene and then
you kind of move on to the next

[shishir]: phase

[raj]: if it was like a marvel movie
or like a john wick movie you would

[raj]: expect

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: a lot more you know it's just
like okay come on you got to tighten

[raj]: that

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: up make it little bit better uh

[shishir]: instagratification right

[raj]: yeah oh

[shishir]: but but to me it was like

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: you know it's just a limitation of

[raj]: ah yeah

[shishir]: resources at the time but it does
even then like i'm like you know what

[raj]: yeah oh

[shishir]: yeah you could probably spend an extra
like

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: one two million realyjus to re do
that scene but you don't need

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: to it's such a such a well
done

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: movie over all that no need like
it's keep it as

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: is just you know

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: it's a parut of its time so
yeah flaw as wise i also agree with

[shishir]: you there are couple of things that
i saw as

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: far s but i didn't it didn't

[raj]: yes

[shishir]: really keep me from from like not
believing in the story that was the other

[shishir]: thing like i know it's not you
know real if we want to go to

[shishir]: the technical aspect of it but i
don't know for me when i was watching

[shishir]: it i felt very like this is
a real real

[raj]: ah

[shishir]: thing

[shishir]: have you seen the movie hostile by
eli ruth

[raj]: no

[shishir]: yeah

[raj]: i haven't you can probably talk me
into a kind of stay away from those

[raj]: kind of like horror slash i don't
know if it's a torture movie but i

[raj]: kind of stay away from those movies

[shishir]: in it was based on some real
actual events that eli roth

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: read about i mean that's that's

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: there's another movie actually

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: in that in that kind of jean
that i would recommend but we can talk

[shishir]: about another pot

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: but but the fact is like you
watch it and you're like wow you know

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: i can believe that this is real
and

[raj]: right

[shishir]: you know

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: in some cases this is rooted in
an actual event but in the ninth gate

[shishir]: it's just surely

[raj]: oh

[shishir]: like you know someone's imagination

[raj]: yep

[shishir]: so i was like wow this is
so cool i love that aspect of it

[shishir]: too so

[raj]: well i don't have much else to
add this movie were a little bit over

[raj]: an hour do you have anything else
you wanted to yeah

[shishir]: no really i think we covered like
the big points

[raj]: yeah

[shishir]: and other aspects that i think were
really cool

[raj]: okay awesome al right i'll go ahead
and we can end it and if you

[raj]: can just stay on for a little
bit

[shishir]: sure sure